Recall training for an adult dog - horrible park incident

[Quickdraw23]

Hi there,

has anyone any advice for revising recall training for a 5 year old dog.

my dog is normally very reliable with recall but I’ve had an incident in the park today that has really shaken me.

i was walking my spaniel around the same playing fields that we go on most days with DS (11 months) in the pram. My dog came back every time I called her until we reached the last bit of the walk when we met a man with two dogs, one on the lead one off the lead.

My dog bounded towards them to sniff and I called her because I saw his dog was on the lead, but she didn’t come which is really out of character, she struck a playful stance in front of the dog on the lead. He began swearing at me, calling me a fucking idiot and telling me to get her back on the lead.

I was calling her, but she thought it was a game and was dancing around trying to entice his dogs to play. He kept swearing at me, then began walking his dog towards her intentionally and encouraging it to attack, so she thought even more it was a game. I shouted at him to stop it and that he was winding her up and to walk away and he kept screaming that I’m a fucking idiot and shouldn’t have my dog off the lead. I was calling her all the time but she was so excited. He was then walking towards her trying to kick her and I was shouting at him to stop it and he kept swearing at me.

I was trying to get my dog back on the lead and keep checking back on DS who was parked in the pram about 6m away from where this is was happening. It was horrendous. the whole thing probably lasted about two minutes and he was verbally abusing me throughout. I kept saying to him “I’m trying to get her back on” and she kept dancing around because she thought it was all a game. He just kept swearing at me calling me a fucking idiot.

I told him to go away and that I would not be talking to him in front of my baby. It’s the only thing I could think to say. I was scared. A woman nearby actually told him he needed to walk his dogs away and he just kept moving towards my dog and shouting and swearing at me.

Ive walked my dog there for over three years and never had anything like this happen before. We did lots of recall training. I know she should have come back when I called her, and if a dog on a lead snapped or bit her because she hadn’t come away I would blame my dog not the dog on the lead, but it’s so out of character for her not to come back.

I’m ordering a retractable lead right now, I don’t feel safe walking her off the lead again, but does anyone have any advice on recall drills or training I can do? Is it just back to basics?

Please be gentle with me, I know my dog was in the wrong for not coming back, but I’m so upset. I’m scared of bumping into him on that park again even if she is on the lead 😞

So if legal you’d pepper spray a dog that was too close to yours and you think other people are the problem? If your dog is that incapable of handling some stress you have done a terrible job.

Sounds like he massively overreacted, totally inappropriate to be swearing in front of children. It’s annoying if a dog doesn’t recall properly but let’s face it she was trying to play not being aggressive and you were doing your best to get her back under control.
Try to remember to reward her recall with some high value treats chicken/cheese and be more consistent with rewarding her when she does listen and also make some time to play with her, you need to be more fun and interesting than other dogs which I appreciate can be difficult with children in tow.
You’ve got your lead on order, hope you don’t run into that arsehole again.

Spaniels off lead are often super annoying as they always have owners who shoot from afar “she just wants to play” or “it is just a game” but despite their cuteness and floppy ears they are often essentially just a dog getting into another dogs face

i have a large dog who does not react well to others dogs coming up and yapping at him, and I do tell the spaniel (or cockapoo, it is always a spaniel or a cockapoo) owners that my dog is not friendly. He is friendly but if a yap dog comes and challenges him , like your dog did) my dog wants to react in a way that you might not find so cute

i keep my dog on a lead and if he gets approached by dogs like yours I will say “he is not friendly!” Then we get the recall fail, then I need to try and walk away but often the little dog just follows and keeps barking and approaching

my dog has pinned down an off-lead yapper a few times, did not hurt it, but it looks bad 😮

so yes please keep your spaniel on the lead.

The man acted like a dick by the way, and please do not feel too intimidated to go back to the park, just keep your dog on a lead too. Not everyone thinks your spaniel is just being playful and cute 😁 they can be a right menace 😬 cute ears and all

He was shouting put your fucking dog on a lead be all OP did was stand there shouting a dog that was ignoring her
common sense would tell you to leave your pram unless you were on a cliff edge path and get your dog

if an out of control dog is ignoring it’s recall the dog owner is making no effort to get it
then flame me now I’d be shouting as well

In the real world, they're banned in a number of countries.

If you or your trainer has to resort to an e collar to train your dog then you're going wrong somewhere.

If you'd read the whole OP you'd have seen he was doing far more than just shouting - and making the situation 100 times worse in the meantime.

He just carried on going it’s up to the out of control dog owner to sort it not him

I would carry on if the owner made no effort to come and physically get the dog

No he didn't just carry on - read the OP carefully and the subsequent posts.

Behaving as he did escalated the situation and if you think he behaved appropriately then you're wrong - I recommend you don't ever do everything he did.

I have
Perhaps I have a tainted view as commute daily on a cycle track and encounter on a regular basis out of control dogs
I just carry on not my dog not my problem and yes I too would and have kicked out at any out if control dog simply not worth the risk

So you would cycle on - you wouldn't scream snd swear, or walk towards the dog who wasn't recalling and jumping around in front of you (but not charging or jumping up on you), or encourage your bigger dog to attack it, or walk towards it and try to kick it? Because he did all of those things, and anyone who's a decent dog owner knows that what he did was escalate the situation - almost like he wanted a dog fight.

I carry on shout for dog owner who 9 times out of 10 is just stood shouting at a dog who is taking no notice and yes I get my foot out of pedal cleat ready to kick it out of the way if it comes that close

The man sounds unhinged. I have owned dogs for over 50 years and have come across two such horrible people. Your recall sounds good and no dog ever has 100% recall. I had a GSD with the best recall but one day in the park we witnessed a dog being hit by a car on a nearby road. I was very upset and called my dog to me, she could hear in my voice that something was very wrong and she would not come near me. You also will have been stressed by that horrible man and it would have been reflected in your voice and frightened your dog. A scared dog does not want to be contained. Chalk it up to experience and if you can avoid that walk do so, or leash your dog if you see the nasty fucker again.

I did leave the pram and was chasing my dog around and calling her back while she darted about. Your representation of what I did and what I have written in my posts is wrong. As is your misquote, he did not just shout “put your fucking dog on a lead”, he was screaming insults at me whilst lunging at my dog, who had not jumped on him or his dogs, she had run up to them and crouched down and wouldn’t come back.

at no point have I tried to defend what my dog did. I have taken full responsibility for her behaviour.

you are just looking for an excuse to be unpleasant to me now, presumably because you gain some kind of enjoyment from it.

@rwalker

But again - you don't do anything that this idiot man did. You (rightly) stop(?) csll the owner to recall their dog, and get ready to defend yourself if the dog comes up close to you. None of that is unreasonable - but it also bears no resemblance to what this man did.

@Quickdraw23 bloody spaniels! Rock solid until they aren't. Love them though. I take it she is spayed? Just trying to think of why she would ignore you when usually she wouldn't.
I have a 15 week old show cocker puppy and am dreading when we will be letting her off the lead. We are going to book a field to do recall training, even though she is pretty good at following me at home she gets easily distracted out and about.
Hope you heart rate has calmed down and you don't encounter this bloke again

We taught our dog ‘this way’ and ‘that way’ exactly for the times the little darling goes temporarily deaf.
we started when he was a pup as a game in the field.
we’d walk one way then call and point ‘this way’.
ita saved us on many an occasion, partly because he realises I’ve gone a different direction and he doesn’t want to be left behind.
our last resort is to say ‘bye bye’ and run away.
not fool proof, nothing ever is. But it gives us more tools in our armoury.
OP you are not a bad owner nor is your dog.
we’ve all been there at one time or another 💐

@Quickdraw23 I just bought the book that's been recommended on this thread, Total Recall by Pippa Mattison, from World of Books for £3.79 +99p delivery in case you are interested

There is so much I could say about this post, but I'll limit myself to two things.

Firstly, you 'disagree' with the fact that my dogs (and other e-collar trained dogs I know) are happy, social and confident. How do you know this? Could you tell me, please? Do you somehow know me and my dogs and the dogs to whom I refer? Or can you read my dogs' minds across the ether?

Secondly, you equate e-collars with abuse, and 'a stun gun', which is facile and ignorant. Sure, an e-collar can be used in an abusive way - but so can a lead, and so can confinement.

You also pair e-collars up with 'shouting and hitting and kicking and starving'. Tell me you've never seen an e-collar well-used at low levels without telling me...

My dogs, pre e-collars, had very good recall, including around around rabbits and sheep. Hares were our nemesis. Strange to relate, I want my dogs to be safe. After I had a long-line ripped out of my hands, when a hare flushed six feet away from us in a location where I did not expect hares, and the dog took off over a couple of hundred yards of muddy plough to cross a busy road... Yes, well.

We had a hare flush under our feet last week. Both dogs were off-lead and neither dog chased. Once the hare was well away I released them to hunt, and they tracked its scent with great enthusiasm. They were not scared, suppressed or unhappy. They didn't even have their e-collars on, because I'd forgotten them.

Believe me (you probably won't), I deeply love my dogs and their happiness and well-being matters to me. If the dogs I'd seen who had been e-collar trained had looked miserable, wary or afraid, I'd never have taken my two. But they didn't, and mine don't.

@EdithStourton

I will never think an owner who has to e-collar train their dog has the right dog for them. I don't believe good owners don't need aversive techniques (and in this I do include everything from e-collars to kicking a dog - because they are all aversive in my eyes) and if you have to rely on them, you should get a dog better suited to your ability to train them.

There's a reason these are banned in many countries - and many of the countries they're banned in have much better trained dogs.

On pretty much every fundamental of dog ownership, we have to agree to disagree as we never see eye to eye on any of these dog threads.

I’d pepper spray a dog attacking my dog. I’ve never lemon juiced a dog for getting too close - don’t worry, I’m not going around harming poorly mannered dogs… I’m just judging their owners.

Glad to hear it!

And it won’t be happy and confident - it will have your card marked

totally wrong to use and are going backward

There is no need to get into the dogs face and spray them with pepper or lemon - just pick it’s back legs up in an emergency which will disorient it - you are harming a perfectly innocent dog because it has a shit owner - disgraceful

You are needing to shock your dogs because you are constantly stimulating them with allowing chase - nothing will be better than chasing a hare - why on earth are you letting this happen?

you now need an e collar to combat that behaviour you keep letting them reinforce as being the best in the world - ridiculous and cruel

and we don’t need to know you’re individual dogs - we already know a dog in fear of you is not a good dog owner relationship

Once the hare was well away I released them to hunt, and they tracked its scent with great enthusiasm. They were not scared, suppressed or unhappy.

of course they weren’t it’s what they live for and you are constantly reinforcing it - stop this chase and refocus them on you and you won’t need to shock them