Buying an ex breeding dog..

[Eeehbahgum]

have seen an ad for a kc registered ex breeding bichon
i rang the breeder today and was told that she os really friendly , likes other dogs and people. Been in car etc , part of family not kenneled.
she is low energy.
( often bichon s can be )
I asked why the sale? (£800) and was told that they are hobby breeder and they cant keep all their dogs as they need new ones to
keep breeding and domt have room for all the older dogs.
they put it like - its her turn for her own sofa now. I know that due to
k c rules she cant have more litters.

really don't want a pup.

they assure me that she is a v easy going dog , house
trained. . i am concerned that she has lived her life with other dogs - thus wont she feel the loss of other dogs ( they say no she loves human fuss! Or have separation anxieties as she is used to never being alone ?

i am allowed to go and spend time with her , stay locally and re visit her the next day . But i cannot test of she will be anxious as outlined until she is in out home. Any ideas about this please?

The GB Bichon one?

If it is like my breeds this would be the one
www.bichonfriseclubofgb.com

ACavalierDream
fab - yes -found it !

I know it's a bit different but I have two ex-breeding cats and they are gorgeous! More like dogs than cats and both have the perfect temperament. I see it as rescuing in a way as you can then give them the lovely life that they deserve and probably haven't had!

Don't buy a doodle @Eeehbahgum and you have the chance to really win here and have a fantastic dog if you can hold your nerve and play the patience game!

To do this properly will mean that you can't shop for a puppy in a catalogue and bring it home next week....like shopping for a sofa or fridge freezer 😅 That's frustrating, I totally get. The urge to get the puppy/dog now is really strong but hear me out:

The best way forward is to make your enquiries, start conversations with the official breed clubs, and then give the process the time it needs. There will be waiting, and sometimes it will feel like nothing is happening while you wait for responses.
But what’s really happening is that you’re laying the groundwork for the right match, ethically.

Think of it as an investment....not just in finding a puppy/dog, but in giving your future dog the healthiest, happiest foundation possible. If you play it right and let the process unfold, you’ll never regret taking the slower, more thoughtful route.

Going the (ok slower) route via breed clubs is you caring for your future dog before he is even in your arms.

How many litters has this dog had?

OnlyHerefortheBiscuits
thank you - what a wonderful way to put it ! We had ponies in the past and I am aware of what can be the dark side of that world .
But the almost maternal urge to get a dog has come over me - which I tried to quell by being a dog sitter for 2 years now - is strong - which you intelligently point out to me .. and what I appreciate.
I must admit that I saw a lot of snobbery in the horse world and that going thro clubs for a dog might be like that - as if show standards etc when what i want is a gentle companion and I have no desire to be a competitive person or whatever . I have no intrest in posh linage etc just a kind dog. i did enquire about one dog and the owner was all about what the parents had won etc and thats so not me . The nicest dog i know is a shitz poodle mix - an ‘ accident’ dog in a family neighbour situation.
But I hear you and thank you for your advice and the recognition about whats going on here!

pincklop
3
i am told due to kennel club rules

Do people not go to animal shelters anymore?

You might see it as rescuing but I see it as supporting the inhumane treatment of cat farms. By purchasing the breeding cats all you did was confine new cats to a dreadful existence.

Do what you like but don't try and kid yourself that you have done a good thing.

They're a puppy farm. It takes about two seconds research to establish that. Avoid.

"unfortunately we had to get a. Liscence’ - whats that about???". They're dodgy and thick. Annoyed they had to up their game a bit.

Horses and dogs are different - I mean, obviously 😂 but not in a facetious way.

If you’re looking for a horse just to be a happy hacker, you’re looking at horses that are already at that point, it almost doesn’t matter what breeds are in it because it’ll be an adult, trained and vet checked. It’s lineage definitely doesn’t matter… and it’s normal for horses to be sold on multiple times as peoples needs or circumstances change, very few people can spend horse upkeep money on a pet horse and it’s not in a horses best interest to be retired at 10 because someone outgrew it.

A dog obviously would be with their owners their whole life barring huge life changing events and then responsible owners would be returning them to their breeder or using a rescue, not just selling them.

Good breeders taking a dog back will either just keep it, rehome it to someone they know or use the breed rescue to look for a new owner, so again, not selling it.

It’s fairly unlikely you’d just stumble on a good breeder with an adult dog to rehome, so realistically the place to get an adult dog is a rescue… in which case, yep it matters not a lot what pedigree it has or hasn’t got as you’re looking at an adult dog in front of you.

Puppies though, are an unknown quantity - so pedigrees matter because you’re having to base your decision on breed traits it’s not showing yet, so to get those breed traits you want it to be a good example of that breed and with a pedigree you can check yourself stuff like health test results, inbreeding, it’s relatives health test results.

Buying a puppy from the adverts you’ve been posting is a bit like you want a highland or a cobby type around 14 hands and someone going, I have one, do you want it? No other info, no pictures or video, no vet checking…, yeah there’s a slight chance it’s what you’re looking for, but it’s more likely there’s a health issue being hidden or it arrived and it’s actually a Shetland

1. It will not be ' cheap ' to neuter a female dog - I guess at least £300 upwards
2. Please don't buy a dog thru that kind of advert.

Whereabouts in the country do you live - just roughly

as I can point you in the direction of a rescue that ' specialises ' in x breeding bitches - when I say specialise - they take in the dogs from breeders, neuter them vaccinate them do health checks etc etc
( The alternative - the bad breeders destroy them by whatever means even throwing them in the slurry pit...)

However most breeding bitches have never lived without another dog, many bitches are not born and raised in a family home environment which can have huge implications on settling them into a new home.
Therefore many x breeders need to live with another dog.

Excellent sensible post by @tabulahrasa

North of England- central / east thanks . Eg york , Leeds is not too far .

North of England- central / east thanks . Eg york , Leeds is not too far .

tabulahrasa · Today 12:33
brilliant thanke.
So do you feel that sometimes a pup - with good pedigree - can still not be typical of the breed.
i ask because I do kmow of a young dog with kc lineage that is good - i know locally and it is so outside the typical human focused traits - it is massively independent, and runs away - it behaves similarly to a terrier - no one has told him he is a human focussed lap dog.!

Ah you can have the actual breeding, but once born the environment, nurturing and socialisation is important.

edited for spelling !

Yes definitely. Same for humans really, look at the royal family. It depends on the breed. Whippets for example are only fairly recently a full pedigree. The one I had was good pedigree but her temperament was not that typical for a whippet. I suspected she took more from the terrier side of the breed. Show breeders don’t know for sure which one of their litters to keep for a while. That is why some will go down the route of making pets and not show dogs. But then you also have the question of nature versus nurture.

Of course, they’re still individuals and experiences come into play as well.

Puppies are always a bit of a gamble, you’re trying to stack the odds on your favour is all.

As a purely pet owner it’s also not so much whether the lines are good that matters as much as - a good breeder will be doing something with their dogs, showing, sport, whatever, that’s why they breed, so they’ll either own/have owned several generations of their dogs… or they’ll know the person who did very well.

So yeah they’ll be able to tell you how parents, grandparents, great grandparents have done, which won’t matter so much to you, but they’ll be able to tell you what they are/were like and they’ll have carefully picked a stud so they should know what that side is like too.

They also usually own at least a few relatives, mum obviously but also probably granny, an aunt or uncle or an older sibling so you’d meet those too.

Thats the sort of information that gives you the best roll of the dice

Not every breeder is a 'farm' and you've jumped to conclusions without knowing any background information. No need to be so aggressive and accusatory.

Nope, I just read your words

I see it as rescuing in a way as you can then give them the lovely life that they deserve and probably haven't had!

Why haven't they had a lovely life? Because they were treated purely as commodities.

If you want an ex breeding dog, check out Many Tears Rescue, based in South Wales, but have fosters over the UK I believe. They often have ex breeding dogs. Have you checked out rescues? My own local one in South Wales has a four year old Bichon.

I have a doodle. I purchased her from Pets For Homes. I also don't agree that breeding for profit is the lowest of the low and means the breeder is operating a puppy farm. There, I've said it 🫣😂

Obviously the bichon you were looking at IS from a puppy farm though and I wouldn't give somebody like that a penny towards their awful business. I've mentioned her before, but I know of a doodle breeder who eventually rehomes her bitches and although I could never do it myself, it works so well for everybody concerned, including the dogs. She owns the stud, who is from excellent lines and has 2 bitches at a time, again both with fantastic pedigrees. She has no more than 2 litters a year and has built up her business over many years and as such that she never has to advertise. Her bitches end up being rehomed only to people she's met along the way, either people that previously had a pup, or friends of them and it's never directly after their last litter, just when the perfect family has become available. Generally retired people, who end up with a calm, perfectly trained adult dog which suits their needs perfectly.

Breeders such as this lady are very few and far between though so it's definitely a minefield. I spent years checking out litters on Pets 4 Homes before I decided on my pup. I'm talking untold messages and many phone calls to potential breeders... I've no doubt I'm one of the "time wasters" they often mention on their ads (I never contact anybody who uses that word). Anybody who doesn't ask a million questions is certainly not somebody I'd want to sell a puppy to anyway.

Another litter I looked at for a while was certainly a puppy farm. She does look after her dogs but has many litters of different breeds of dogs. They're cared for as she's an ex vet nurse but she got quite shirty with me when I interrogated her. The litter I was looking at I was told it was the bitches last litter as she was 6, which put me off anyway. I kept nosing even after I'd ruled the litter out and saw the poor dog had another litter after, which she'd tried to play down a bit and within months of that litter she'd been rehomed and advertised as being 9 years old 😱

So yes, lots of questions and lots of research so you know which questions to ask, is key. Good luck!