Buying an ex breeding dog..

[Eeehbahgum]

have seen an ad for a kc registered ex breeding bichon
i rang the breeder today and was told that she os really friendly , likes other dogs and people. Been in car etc , part of family not kenneled.
she is low energy.
( often bichon s can be )
I asked why the sale? (£800) and was told that they are hobby breeder and they cant keep all their dogs as they need new ones to
keep breeding and domt have room for all the older dogs.
they put it like - its her turn for her own sofa now. I know that due to
k c rules she cant have more litters.

really don't want a pup.

they assure me that she is a v easy going dog , house
trained. . i am concerned that she has lived her life with other dogs - thus wont she feel the loss of other dogs ( they say no she loves human fuss! Or have separation anxieties as she is used to never being alone ?

i am allowed to go and spend time with her , stay locally and re visit her the next day . But i cannot test of she will be anxious as outlined until she is in out home. Any ideas about this please?

So has anyone seen any trustworthy ads??? It feels a scary world for someone trying to find a dog to care for !

I would say anyone who advertises online is not trustworthy, certainly not when talking about breeds that are expensive and prone to puppy farming.

I would avoid any breeder that advertises online. it was a red flag to me.

She has 15 other dogs of various breeds advertised currently. Horrific. This is a business not pets. Scroll down to other advertisements from this user.on the page.

Agree. I would avoid entirely.

People who advertise grown dogs for sale are not people you should buy from. They are either puppy farmers, or they are people selling dogs with severe behavioural issues that they will fail to disclose.

People who love their dogs, who have put effort into raising them, but due to unforeseen situations can no longer keep them will use breed specific charities i.e. Spaniel Aid for Spaniels/Doodle-Crosses etc. They also charge a hell of a lot less than £800.

Do you feel big, piggy, talking to people like thatt?

OP, that breeder does look dodgy.

A friend of mine took on a mini schnauzer (sp?) from a breeder, but a reputable one. The experience was very positive and the dog is adored and very happy.

Your advice is very valuable and I was grateful for the help you gave me on another similar post.

I think the real issue when buying a puppy is that the KC and breeding licences give a false impression. People with the best intentions at heart will see it as a stamp of approval. In my opinion, KC needs to tidy up its act otherwise they condone puppy farming.

Correct me if I am wrong but when looking at pedigree breeds, there are the conclusions I came up this:

• KC does not mean there is no puppy farming but you want your dog registered on it. Option of non KC registration is a red flag.
• Go on the club’s website and speak to someone there. If you really want a pedigree pup, wait for them to put you in touch with one of theirs. It will take a long time and might not happen at all.
• go on the breed’s specific rescue. Again, it will be long but worth it.
• give up on the breed if it is too difficult and either go any rescue dog or look for a breed that is easier to get hold of (there plenty of breeds that are not trendy)
• never buy from a breeder that advertises online.

@LandSharksAnonymous anything else?

@ACavalierDream thank you, I'm really glad you found it helpful!

I would only add one thing:

• The first dog of a breed, or puppy, that comes along and you see may well be the best - but it may well not be. And it's okay to walk away. People always say 'but the puppy/dog was lovely' (even if the 'breeder' was a walking red flag) and they want to help...but by buying that puppy or dog and taking it away from an awful situation, they are enabling the 'breeder' to continue abusing dogs. It's better not to buy or rescue a puppy or dog if you have any concerns than potentially ending up supporting a nefarious breeder or buying a dog/puppy that is not healthy and finding yourself landed with hugely costly vets bills.

On the 'advertises online' this is a bit nuanced and some excellent breeders do - but they absolutely won't have entire litters up that are all available. And they will never, ever, use Pets4Home, or GumTree etc. They will use ChampDogs or the KC Website. They might advertise in advance of the litter being born, or one or two puppies, but almost certainly not all. And anyone with more than one litter or one dog up at a time will always be a puppy farmer. Raising a puppy or dog right takes time and patience - if there is a high-turnover of dogs or puppies, it means the animals are not being looked after properly. Any breeder selling an adult dog should be avoided, IMO. Mostly it's just common sense but it's so easy to get sucked in!

Ultimately, finding an adult dog (if you are determined you want to rescue, @Eeehbahgum ) is hard. Going through breed-specific rescues is your best chance of knowing exactly what you are getting. People who sell privately (i.e. Pets4Homes, Gumtree) or big charities are often less than honest about the dogs behavioural issues and experiences and health than the breed specific rescues. Sometimes that's deliberate and sometimes they're just incompetent.

The breed-specific rescues will have had their dogs in foster care, where they will be carefully examined in a variety of situations (other dogs in their home, children, cats, small animals, recall, walking to heel) and also checked for behaviours (guarding, aggression, nervousness, shadow chasing) and therefore they will know exactly what the dog is like.

I think it's really important to take dog-buying seriously in general...but if you're going for a dog/breed that is known to have lots of health issues or be disposed to behavioural issues then it's even more important. Bichon Frise are prone to a varitey of expensive, life-limiting health issues including luxating petellar, hip dysplasia, glaucoma. In a worst case scenario if you buy an unhealthy Bichon you could be looking at £20K worth of surgery easily.

Buy giving her £800 you may feel you are saving one dog but that £800 gets ploughed back in to creating misery for the other bitches she is breeding from.

You are aiding and abetting her if you are a customer.

Walk away.

I would add to that, if I may, that even champ dogs is no guarantee. The breeder I was looking at was advertising one litter on pets4homes under one affix and also used champ dogs for the same breed (but not same litter) under another affix… I found this out with some internet sleuthing and the help of the breed specific rescue. All the while flagging KC as the stamp of approval.

Thanks all - its a mine field !
x

So apart feom breed spefic rescue- and knowing - from here that wven kennel club does not guarantee abuse- how on earth does one get a dog / puppy??? I do not want to support unethical practices.

i saw lots of breeder on line now saying that they do sensory stuff with pups , non expense spared etc - how on earth do you tell a good breeder or if its a con??! Some one said good breeder s don’t advertise- how do i find a dog / pup in that case.
feel so sad about it all really .

The breed club for whatever breed it is you’re looking for

some have puppy lists or a puppy coordinator, some have a breeder list, others have like Facebook groups you can join… depends a bit on how common or rare a breed it is, who runs the club etc. They are often linked to a breed specific rescue or run one themselves as well.

but they’re usually the best place to start

Thanks
i had a bichon for 15 happy years and also have a thing for poodles.

Speaking as a vet nurse with many years experience most vets absolutely will not 'happily' put to sleep a healthy dog.
I work in an independent practice but it's a small circle and we all have contacts in other practices and it's the same there too.
That's why so many veterinary staff and their families and friends have so many animals !
I have to defend my field of work and the great people in it ,other than that i agree with a lot of what you say.
Sadly many breeders are the lowest of the low , it's beyond me how anyone can cast aside a dog for the reasons they do , cold callous scumbags.

I approached reputable breeders who were on the KC register and looked at their set ups first.
Out of 3 ive had, 1 has separation anxiety as he was a very coddled little lap dog and I was made aware he is clingy.
I absolutely wouldn't be happy with the set up you described. They should all be having regular vet check ups, and genuine breeders usually specialise in only 1 or 2 breeds.

So from what many of you say , it seems that better breeders specifically work with one ofr two breeds.

To me , the below appears a good bet

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk//classifieds/emluw43hx-toy-maltipoos-lanark/?pmg_source=share

any thoughts ot suggestions of other contacts please. Noted the tips already given above re kk and breed clubs - thanks .

Actually it says that they specialise in poodle crosses a but i dod see a third type of dog.

what attracted me was the list of things they do with the pupd to make them well rounded- any thoughts please
ot if anyone know of a good link to a caring breeder for bichons / poodles … thanks .

I'd say it's another puppy farm. They currently have three litters available - Maltipoos, Cavapoos and Golden Irish doodles. Not even sure what that last one is.

So they probably have bitches of various breeds and one poodle stud dog. Churning out puppies. I doubt very much they do anything with the puppies.

If you are going to look on Pets4Homes, check out what other adverts the seller has running. That will help weed out a lot of them.

They have three litters available at the same time. Of different breeds!

Anyone with that many litters is not raising the dogs properly, and almost certainly is not caring for their dogs adequately.

People have told you have to find good breeders. Stop using Pets4Homes. You are never going to find a decent breeder on there. Use the breed club, cross-check with the KC to ensure health tests/scores are accurate and be patient. Any readily available puppy, particularly if the 'breeder' has multiple litters, is a walking red flag.

Just clicked on their breeder profile. They describe themselves as a family run business and list 7 different breeds/crosses that they specialise in. None of them being a Maltipoo or Irish doodle, so it looks like they have expanded their range.

And agree with @LandSharksAnonymous There is no way they can be raising three litters to the standards they claim. The only thing I believe is the puppies will be crate trained. Because I doubt they will have ever left one.

Just checked - the kennel club
Assured breeders scheme is no more .

Contact a breed club for either bichons or poodles. Don’t shop online.

Wolfiefan Do you mean the bichon amd poodle national organisation . I have contacted the bichon England organisation . Thenk you !

I suspect she means the club associated with the breed, which for my breeds (sighthounds) are they ones who do all the dog shows. Google the breed and the uk club. That is where they list upcoming dog shows. Those are the breeders you want to contact.