Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - welcome to the teenage wasteland

[Bupster]

Buckled (under instruction 😄)

Oh god there must be something in the air! Vinny sometimes does that too where he recalls beautifully then gets close and just buggers off. Very frustrating.

Thank you @Nella68

Yes, two girth straps and the strap that goes between the front legs can be length adjusted. It's an excellent design for a very large dog. However, it does not have a front ring, only a back ring. That suits me fine because I'll be using it with the martingale and double ended lead. She's just too strong for harness only, I need the collar for control on road walks but I will use just the harness with 3 metre lead for field walks.

There's a male Bully local to us, he is fine with Brie. He is very chunky and solid, although Brie towers over him in height. This is the thing, massive dogs get such a bad press, particularly on MN, but a lot of them are really gentle and don't look for trouble. Brie is also very submissive and rolls over or lies on her belly for much smaller dogs. She is so very sensitive, I do worry about her being attacked by another dog. We both really need to toughen up... hence the trainer. I'll update later.

When our older one was a younger pup we met an XL bully type, they had a great play together. I don't think it got much opportunity for play (this was pre ban). It was funny because it had absolutely no stamina, it had to stop for a lay down after trying to keep up with mine. 😂

Call was good. The trainer is going to come and do an assessment at home, then we'll decide how to progress. That will hopefully mean getting out for some walks, encountering noisy tractors before Brie gives a masterclass in lead biting 😬

@CoubousAndTourmalet Glad the call went well. Hopefully the trainer will be able to help you with Brie's lead issues.

@CoubousAndTourmalet Brill! That sounds really positive 🤞🏻

Thanks @SpanielsGalore and @YorkshireFelix
I'm really hoping that it will make a difference. Walks are hard work at the moment.

@CoubousAndTourmalet You'll be pleased to know my choices are very much narrowed down now between the two below.

Golden girl is just edging cream girl. Golden's colouring is very similar to Twatdog - although that's not really a surprise as Pen's latest litter was with Twatdogs half-brother. Either way, they're chunky little blighters.

@LandSharksAnonymous they are so chonky!!! Gorgeous! I would honestly love a Goldie. My DD’s school friend got a cream boy about 6 months before we got Vinny and he is just absolutely glorious. Massive though 😄

@LandSharksAnonymous They're huge! They look bigger than K already. I'll vote for golden girl, purely because I prefer the golden colour. 💖
Our old family GR was dark gold, but that was 50 odd years ago now. They seem to have got a lot lighter over the years, unless you go for a working strain one.

Interesting you mention working lines, @SpanielsGalore, as I've noticed the same thing. It's interesting as I don't think there's any recent working lines in my brood, but their coats are a bit coarser than the usual softness I would expect in show dogs. They each have a coarse line of fur that run's down their back and their bums are quite course, although their chest and tummy's are more 'show.'

I am leaning more towards Golden Girl as she was crying whilst that photo was taken so she was put down, and she tiddled straight away and then asked to be picked up again. At nearly six weeks old, I'm very impressed 😃It gives me hope that (if I keep her) she may be fully housetrained by about 8-9 weeks which would be lovely. That being said, Cream girl is lovely but I'm yet to see as much intelligence from her!

@YorkshireFelix oh they are glorious...but I do sometimes (more often these days than a few years ago) get a little yearning for a cocker spaniel. Something I can cuddle without it squashing me. I have to take them all to the vets early next week for their first vaccination and I'm expecting them to be about 6KG(ish) as they're bigger now than Twatdog was at the same age.

I'm waxing lyrical about them right now, but give it another few hours and I'll be back to glaring at the little termites and dreaming of the day they go 😁

@LandSharksAnonymous That's interesting. I'm wondering now if our GR was a working strain one. I shall have to dig an old photo out. I always assumed he was a show strain, but that people have bred them to be lighter over the years. I was told once the KC used to describe them as the colour of bracken.
Has your mum noticed any difference over the years? Do the lighter ones do better in the show ring?

Thank you for sharing a photo @LandSharksAnonymous
They both look beautiful. And such big bonny pups! Dammit, broody again now!

If you keep cream girl you might get sick of people asking if she's a Pyrenean though...😉

It's interesting what you're saying, because there's two GR local to us and they are both cream, whereas the ones we met years ago mostly seemed to be a rich warm gold.

@CoubousAndTourmalet It was my understanding that the show ring/judges/powers that be decided the cream ones were preferable, so breeders started breeding them lighter. Which is why the working strain are still dark.
But this has only been gleaned from being at shows for cocker spaniels and seeing and talking to people about GRs whilst there. So it may be total bollocks. 🤷‍♀️
People do breed for what is desirable in the ring though - hence the flatter faces and sloping backs of other breeds. Fortunately the change in colour in GRs hasn't had the same detrimental effect to their health.

@CoubousAndTourmalet They'll still manage to think it's a Pyrenean anyway! I have noticed more cream coloured litters these days and, as you say, the ones years ago were darker...

@SpanielsGalore You're right!

It's interesting as 'red' and mixed colours are deemed unacceptable (i.e. they can only be Golden or Cream, but if they are Golden or Gold they can have some white on the chest but that's it).

Twatdog has cream hindquarters, and a cream chest/stomach and tail and he's been very successful. His sire was Ovinglay Locksmith (and genuinely, they could be twins - down to the devil eyes. If you do a quick google, you'll see what I mean!). And neither of them have been hugely successful in the ring (I hadn't expected Twatdogs colours to go the way they did tbh) in part because they're not 'breed standard.' Twatdog still does reasonably well, but not as well as he should (IMO).

But all my girls and the sires I've used who have been successful in the ring - including the stud of the latest litter who is a very close relatives to the stud I used for twatdog - have been very sucessfull including JW etc have all been cream. One of DMums girls did incredibly well and she was cream.

It drives me bonkers as, being honest, twatdog is the best example of his breed I have come across (even if he is a massive bellend). Yet, because of his colours, he will never be as successful as a cream one.

But it also amuses me, because of all the dogs I've ever had it's twatdog that I get stopped about, and asked about, and who is complimented - but he's the only dog I've had who isn't 'breed standard' by KC regs. Actually...Satan is sable (golden, black and brown), and DMum get's stopped all the time with Satan and people compliment her. Satan is the devil in dog form, but she is stunning.

So, now I think about it, it's the dogs that aren't 'breed standard' that people seem to find the most appealing.

So, now I think about it, it's the dogs that aren't 'breed standard' that people seem to find the most appealing.

Lots of people value the rarity factor, hence the popularity of merles in breeds where they shouldn't exist, silver labs etc. All a puppy farmer's dream.

What's standard varies with time and location, if you look at the labs that are shown in the USA they're much further away from a working lab than the UK split. (And Americans have the cheek to cause these things 'English' labs)

@tizwozliz 100% agree. Poor Satan was used for breeding and treated awfully (which, admittedly, is where a lot of my issues with cockerpoo breeding comes from). I doubt she'd have suffered half as badly if she hadn't been such a beautiful colour.

@LandSharksAnonymous Was really worried about posting earlier as didn't want to offend you, so I am very glad I haven't. I did notice Twatdog's legs were a different shade to his body the other day. What a shame that's held against him in the ring, when form and temperament should be much more important IMO.
I googled his sire. His back is much closer to the colour I remember our dog being.

@SpanielsGalore no offence given at all! His sire is quite small tbh so I think his colouring is more obvious at first glance that twatdogs. It is such a shame it's held against him though as he is such a good example of his breed, and he even naturally does the 'show' trot out on walks.

It's interesting regarding show v working.

I don't want to mention kennel names here on the thread, but we think Algy, our boy from Ireland, was our soundest dog. He was full European lines (French, Belgian) enormously tall and leggy. Very strong. He was placed under a French judge, which pleased us immensely. But he was not the right type to do well in the UK (or US) showring.

Our most successful dog in the showring was our smaller boy, Finn. He was a bit more compact, less leggy and rangy and had more appeal to the non breed -specialist judges. He had the right look that they want in a PMD and was also our calmest at shows, because he attended a lot of ringcraft and had also been to Jane Ardern's puppy classes.

The dog of ours that got hands down the most favourable comments out and about on walks, was Merlin, a quarter French on the dams side, he was a grandson of a very famous and successful PMD. He had coloured body patches and was very masculine and quite eye catching, but we never showed him.

Our previous 3 girls weren't really typey enough for the showring. They were also fairly petite. We did a few Ag Socs and a club show with Rosie, but Sylvie was too much the introvert so we only entered her as NFC.

It seems to have been easier to get a really good male in our breed; we've had three fantastic boys. In a numerically small breed like ours, the better girls often tend to go to the top kennels for breeding and show.

That said, Brie is arguably the most striking of our four girls, and, given that we weren't even on a waiting list, we just got lucky when the pups were already 4 weeks old, she has totally surpassed our expectations.

@CoubousAndTourmalet That's interesting about the breed being smaller so males being more prevalent, I'd never really considered it like that!

Brie is incredibly striking though ❤

It's not really more prevalent as regards numbers, just that girl pups tend to go first. Don't quote me on it, it may not even be a thing. It was just something that has occurred to me, because although PMD litters are frequently bitch heavy, we've had the choice of two or three very nice male puppies all four times. And if I placed our 8 for type against the breed standard, it'd be boys 1,2 & 3.
It might be coincidence, but certainly when you look at top kennels they tend to (as you do) have several bitches but only one dog. Thus, my weird theory is that it's easier to get a good show quality male puppy.
It could arguably in my breed also be a factor that the males are just too dauntingly huge for the average family. There is a big size difference between the sexes in all the giant breeds. (Except clearly, nobody told Brie 😬)

@CoubousAndTourmalet tbh I think you probably are onto something! Do you think if you get another boy he might be smaller than Brie then, given she's a giant?

@Bupster also, without wanting to sound creepy, I can see you liked my photo above but you have shared no updates on Bill recently! No more puppy photos until we see a Bill photo (JUSTICE FOR BILL!) 😃And more seriously, hope all is well with you (and Bill)

It's difficult to say @LandSharksAnonymous A boy should be bigger but Brie is about the same size as Finn was. Magnus, Merlin & Algy were all on the bigger side. Algy was the tallest, but Mag the heaviest.

Yes, I second the demand for a new photo of the squishy velvety soft gorgeousness of Bill. Please.

Huge apologies, @LandSharksAnonymous and @CoubousAndTourmalet! I've been away for a week teaching a summer school; Bill went back to his breeder last year but this year he's stayed at his daycare. They've been sending me updates and photos every day and he's doing really well (better than me, I was basically chewing the skirting board the first night).

I also got to meet one of his full WCS half-brothers for the first time - the summer school is where I used to live. Annoyingly he is absolutely gorgeous (though not as squidgy as Bill) and has no trace of nobhead whatsoever. So either Bill has inherited most of the nobheadery from his working line Labrador father, or from me.

I've attached my favourite photo from last year (with his mum) and one the daycare sent this year as a sort of holding tax. I go home tomorrow and he's dropped off tomorrow evening and I expect to find what's left of my nose by mid-Saturday morning; once I've sellotaped it back on my face I'll update everyone on how he's doing 😄