Help for a newbie - dog

[Ilovecashews]

As a family we love animals but in the past 15 years only had cats. I have now discovered that daughter is allergic to cats (not badly) and she’s always wanted a dog anyway. We have also discovered that she is neurodivergent and have agreed that having an animal she wants and will certainly love would do her good, a lot of good. We have always adopted for the usual reasons. I don’t know what to do in this case though. We could go to the local shelter and pick the saddest/oldest/sickest dog and be totally fine with that. However she’s met a few border collies and loved their character, and I can see her taking an active role in training, teaching tricks, running around most of the day with one/a puppy if we went down that road. The rest of the family would be onboard with that too. I know that puppies are lots of work etc, but I’ve done harder things for my daughters so that’s something I can do.

The problem I have is the morality of it. Paying for a dog, having another dog pregnant for my pleasure, knowing that one dog in a shelter is going to miss on a frankly fabulous life because I wanted to pick a breed.

Can you help me decide by telling me about your experiences on all of the above?
Thank you

I really wouldn’t be going for a border collie as a first dog.

Can you tell me why?

Children do not get a say in whether the family get a pet.

And border collies are not an appropriate family pet for 99.9% of the population.

Put it this way: I have five acres, WFH full time (tbh my jobs barely a job most of the time), exercise my current dogs for 2+hrs a day and have done SGWC with my Goldie, and I still would not be able to give a Collie a good life. They are busy dogs. They need a job. They have no off switch. They heard. They nip. They are incredibly intelligent and you need to know precisely what you are doing to train one and own one.

They were bred to heard sheep and run for hours - they were not bred to be a companion and do ‘tricks’ with. Unless you live on a farm and have sheep, you don’t get a Collie - to do so would be selfish.

Sounds blunt, but it’s true and if you get your child a Collie it will end in tears. All the things she wants to do can be done with a Poodle. Get a poodle.

I really wouldn't recommend a border collie either - they're not easy pets and require a lot of exercise and training.

Agree with all of this. I am a hugely experienced dog owner, with plenty of land and plenty of time. I still wouldn’t get a border collie. They are working dogs, they work for hours and hours and hours and I could not give a collie the life it needs or deserves.

Personally, I would get a rescue (I also struggle with them moral aspect of buying a dog). Not all rescues are old or “damaged” or sick. Depending on where you are, have a look at Yappy Ever After dog rescue. They have some lovely younger dogs, labradors etc that might be perfect for you.

Thank you for your opinions, what about buying versus getting a random dog in a shelter? Does anyone have experience on that?

(my children do get a say in whether we get a pet, where we go on holiday, what we are having for dinner 🤣)

Get a lab. A failed guide dog if you can! Win win

Yes. I would always rescue. Before I met my dh, he had always bought dogs. He thought rescue dogs were “broken” in some way and would be a nightmare to own. 20 years (and almost 40 rescue dogs) later he has totally changed his mind. He would never buy another dog.
Go to a good rescue (there are some crap ones, so take recommendations) and they will be able to match a suitable dog to your family. Do you have any dog experienced friends? I have gone with friends of mine who have never had a dog to help them choose one that will work for them.

Sorry, the ‘sickest’ dog meant that we are prepared to take dogs with medical needs as we’ve always done the same for cats - gone for the ones no one else wanted.

Would you go with the child and let them have a part in choosing the right dog for them in a shelter or without? I can see pros and cons in both cases

Agree. Get a rescue. They’ll match you with a suitable dog.

How old is your daughter? That may limit your choices as often rescues won't rehome to houses with younger kids.

Have you considered what will happen if the dog doesn't live up to your DD expectations.

If you still have cats that will limit your choice from rescues too.

I don't have a problem with buying a puppy from a breed that will suit the life that we can give it and that has been responsibly bred. Not all breeders are terrible. There are plenty of very thoughtful and careful breeders out there, and all the breeding bitches I know have good and fulfilling lives, even if they are kennelled part-time spend most of their lives in the house, and have a great relationship with their owners. Don't beat yourself up if you can't find a dog in a rescue that you will be happy with and that will be happy with you.

I should add, I grew up with a former street dog and a dog that my parents rescued from a family who were about to have her PTS for being a nuisance. So I've nothing against rescues either.

Without, at least initially. You will need to be guided by the rescue to get a dog that works for you. And it might not be the one your child would pick. No point risking the upset. If she loves dogs, she will love whatever dog you end up with.
Plus, you cannot just go to a rescue, chose a dog and take it home. You will have to have a home check to ensure your suitability (how I wish breeders did this! ) That can take a week or two to arrange. If you are confident you will pass a home check, depending on where said dog is being kept (I.e. kennels or foster home) you might be able to arrange for her to meet the dog in the interim. Home check criteria is usually 5ft fences as a minimum, dog not being left for more than 4 hrs, and actually the age of your children? How old is your youngest? A lot of rescues will not home to families with very young children.
I would add that a lot of rescues would not view your getting a dog “for” your child as a massive positive. Whilst it would be fantastic if she and the dog bond, children can be fickle. The dog is a sentient being in its own right, for which you are taking, depending on age, 15 years of responsibility, and needs to be viewed as such. An AWFUL lot of dogs are returned to rescue because the child decides they don’t like it and rescues would obviously prefer to avoid this type of placement breakdown.

Are you sure she isn't also allergic to dogs?

If you're anywhere near South Wales, give Hope Rescue a call. They often have litters of puppies in as they are the main choice for the local authority where dogs are seized from unlicensed breeders, they're pragmatic about rehoming to families with children and you'll get full rescue back up for life.

The younger is 11 and the older is 13 so I think we should have enough leeway in terms of age.

She wants to bond with the animal so I think it won’t be that hard to do so with a very much wanted dog. Animals like her, she’s always going up to them and patting them so hopefully we will manage to find one that wants cuddles/company/warmth. She wants get bored of the dog/pet, and even if in five years she was too busy with friends to love her 100%of the time there would be the other family members.

our previous cat stayed with us for 15 years so I think I can prove that we are an ‘animal family’. It’s very good that charities check people’s home. One charity who gave us a cat once didn’t even call up the next day (or ever!) to see how she was doing.

Are charities pts animals that do not get adopted, or do they keep them forever?

thanks for all the replies

Yeah, she’s allergic to dust and cat hair. Dog was fine, another reason why she ‘hates’ me
for not getting a dog for 10 years of her life 🤣

You won't be able to get a "random dog in a shelter" - you'll need to be matched to one that suits your lifestyle, your children and their ages and the fact that you have cats.

My dog was from a breeder and I have no issues with people buying their dogs so long as they do their due diligence and make sure it's not a puppy farm or some dodgy backyard set up.

We have a 6 year old border collie, would we get another no. We love him dearly, but he likes a routine, which is hard for a family to stick to. I truly believe they are farm dogs for a reason, they do their jobs in the day and sleep at night. Our boy is very intelligent, needs stimulation and constant training. Unfortunately many end up in rescue centres because people don’t have the time and patience for them and don’t realise that this dog could possibly live to 18/20 years old. I don’t know where you are, but there’s quite a lot of border collie rescues, we have Valgrays in the South, these rescues would be my first call.

11 and 13 should be fine and some charities are far less stringent with cats. And yes unfortunately there are charities that PTS dogs that are “long stayers” for whatever reason.

I'm not sure from your post whether you are currently pet-free. If so, that makes the search easier. Otherwise you'd need both a cat-friendly dog and dog-tolerant cat, which can be a tall order!

Our dog likes cats. She likes to lick their heads, and play-bow at them, and run around in giddy circles to see if maybe, this time, they might play.

Very occasionally, the younger one will humour her. The other one pretends she doesn't exist. Our previous cat would have gone for the jugular.

I've had dogs since I was a kid,a lot of border collies is the first family dog was a border. A few crosses and one toy. Another post on here, about not being able to get a rescue dog. We lost our toy last year almost 18 (have had 3 dogs live this long) I mapped an area 100 mile radius from where we live, village, big garden, retired always someone at home, farmland 2 roads away,beach 10 minutes. Have always had 2 dogs together,at one time 3. Each border has had a completely different personality. Then the phone took me to England Ireland Scotland and Wales. The dogs coming from Ireland were older puppies, not happy with that because of the socialising aspect. Most of the others didn't reply. I looked at the dogs up for adoption,no specific breed, I didn't want a brachial face,it was "reactive to cars, bikes, people, cannot be walked near other dogs,no children including visiting". My youngest dgd is 2. I have often asked folk on walks why they adopted from abroad this is the reason. We were turned down by the RSPCA when we lived in a village, quarter acre of garden, with a stream bridge into fields, inspector put medium garden, I told her 50 foot is a medium garden, she said we had to have a dog because we already had a bitch. Two bitches couldn't live together,we bought a puppy,6 months later a private "rescue" puppy,both 8 weeks old,both bitches. After months of looking,we bought a puppy last year, another bitch to go with the one we already have.

At 10/13 they are not old enough to make a decision over whether a pet is right for the family. It is a living breathing creature, not something to be bought to appease them - which tbh is how it’s coming across - or in any way comparable to a holiday or dinner ffs. The fact you can even make that comparison - perhaps it was a poor joke - is pretty disgusting.

You don’t sound like you’ve given this much thought - and as someone who fosters this sounds like the beginnings of a tale as old as time.

Get a dog if you want, but don’t be surprised when it develops behavioural issues and you are fully responsible for it and your children hate you because the dog destroyed their clothes, or bit them or stops them being able to do as they wish.