Breeder doesn’t allow visits… walk away?

[Hawknotdove]

Hello,

I’ve found a breeder locally with puppies available in the autumn. She seems legitimate in most respects - pictures of her showing dogs and winning Crufts all over FB, sent me vetting questionnaire, then video call and wants to do a home visit. Seems dog-obsessed and has sent me hand-written info sheets on diet, care etc. She comes across as someone who lives for her dogs - possibly to the point of being a bit obsessive.

However, she says she doesn’t allow visits to her own home. She says she will pick 1 or 2 pups (depending on size of litter) than she thinks are a good fit for our family and bring them to my house with the mother when they are old enough. Also, when I did a call to meet her and the dogs, they didn’t appear to be in her house (she says they live in the house but it looked like she’d taken them to a barn for the call).

Finally, she’s bred in line so they have an in-breeding coefficient that’s higher than the breed average.

Shes’s KC assured and the parents are fully health screened.

Honestly, it’s such a mine field!!!

Walk away?

I would appreciate advice. You’ve all been so helpful so far!

@Hawknotdove You are correct in thinking this is very ''Off'' and a bad sign.

Sounds like a front for a puppy mill, where they often pose as a private home.

A person who is reputable will want to not only interview you via phone, but also to meet you - Some people go on a waiting list {I did}

It is very important to see the pups with their mother- {Often the sire lives elsewhere} but mum is essential.

Usually when the pups are around 5-6 weeks old.
you may not have much ''choice''- I was last on the list, but second from last got a cruft's qualifying pup {at a year old}

I loved seeing the pups with their mum, it gave a real look at the character of the dogs- who was bossy, who was confident, who was quiet-

Pic below is one greeting a stranger {Me!} - I have seen this pup as an adult, and he is a stunner.

We are all in regular touch.

Some qualified for Crufts- My dog is an assistance dog, very quiet , calm and steady.

I hope you find someone reputable to get a dog from.

@Hawknotdove A high Coefficient of inbreeding would worry me, too.
Chances of an undesirable recessive trait coming through is too high. {Temperament also is highly heritable}.

Tell her you will have the pup and both parents DNA tested to confirm parentage, and watch her block you faster than greased lightning.

A breeder should vet you. When I got my most recent dog I was asked for;

• bank statements - to prove I could afford the breed
• video tour via FaceTime/skype of my house
• my home set up (children, other pets - yes - did I have experience of having multiple dogs - yes - what breeds etc, did I plan to have kids, where did I work, did I ever plan on leaving the pup etc)
• postcode and house number (assuming so she could check I actually owned the house I claimed I did)

That was all before she would even let me see the pups. Once she was content, I was allowed to visit whenever I wanted (I went every day for two weeks after I paid my deposit)

If you're not happy, then walk away. TBH if she hasn't asked about kids/finances/video tour, I would swerve. Clearly not that fussed who she sells the puppies to.

@Hawknotdove The person I got my pup from only has a litter every three years or so, and a bitch only ever has one litter. {This is easy to check via KC and breed archives}

{Friend- she is a friend now, } has a written 'Puppy' contract offering full money back guarantee for a month - and descending amounts to a year old- after that, she won't give money back, but will take back any dog she has bred, for any reason, at any age.

She has taken back two older dogs over the years, one after a divorce, and the other where the owner had to go into a care home earlier than expected- so I know she is as good as her word.

Good early socialisation is so important- raised indoors so they are used to the household noises and comings and goings of normal life.

Nine weeks is reckoned to be a good time for going to a new home- make the most of that ''socialisation window''.

I have had 3 rescues.. 2 were disastrous, aggressive, one was lovely. We lost our phone lady January, almost 18. I had to drive from Sussex to Somerset to be vetted by the breeder. A friend of mine though this was ridiculous,but she bought a puppy from a pet shop which has been on the news many times.... puppy farming, parvovirus, puppies dying. She paid full pedigree price,he was insured, but by 3 riddled with arthritis. On heavy meds, hydro and aqua therapy, nothing worked. She had big excesses on the insurance, the dog was in agony, and sadly PTS. It was their first dog and last,her and her DH were devastated, said they would never have another dog and they didn't. I tried rescues, I didn't mind the breed as long as it wasn't a staffi or brachial. DH didn't want a male. I started out with a 100 radius of Home,then ended up with England, Ireland Scotland and Wales. There was staffies, brachial face, elderly,or every single dog had behavioural issues,no other dogs,pets,no children,no visiting children, reactive to people,cars,bikes, other dogs,I have been there done this, got the t shirt.

I never typed phone lady! I typed a "Phalene aged 18"!!

She's already collecting sales for dogs that haven't even been conceived yet? Nah, you're alright.

This isn't necessarily true.. {As in ''takes very best for herself''}
We had a Whippet many years ago, and he was not the one his breeder chose-

A year later, she said to me ''You have the very best out of the litter!''- people did often used to comment on his good conformation - he wasn't a show dog, but a pet. {His dad was a well known champion at that time} {Pic of pup with out Rescue Lurcher from years back}

My friend bought a Whippet, second to last on the waiting list, her dog at a year qualified for crufts twice - it can be very hard to tell how a 6 week old puppy turns out conformation wise, even for the very experienced.

{The age at which most are ''reserved'' by their prospective owners, to go home at 9 weeks}

Had our dog 9 years wasnt until we actually had him home permanently that we realised he more than likely came from a puppy farm and shitty conditions and that he more than likely was given to us WAY too early. We had him chipped and it was the lady who sold him to us that came to do it and she asked not once about him.

Red flag for puppy farm 🚩🚩🚩

Rescue dogs have definitely changed in type over the years - I saw a heartbreaking film about an animal shelter in USA - late 1970's{?} barely any Pit Bulls, just Collie types- it showed the euthanasia of puppies, one little one crying at the needle and trying to bury himself in the worker's arms- that was a very hard watch. Killed before he even had had a chance at life.

• Idiots who allowed their pets to breed, and then couldn't find good homes for them fill the shelters with their dogs and cats.

I have never bred an animal, but so many do.

Dogs in rescues now do seem to have much more ''reactivity'' {Personal observation} - and the longer a dog stays in a rescue kennel, the worse it is for that dog.

The standard of ownership is also pretty dire in some places- under exercised dogs, dogs with no training whatsoever, and this coupled with inexperienced owners buying from Back yard breeders/online ads has made a perfect storm of'' problem dogs'', created because of people's poor decisions.

Crating of dogs never used to be the norm- but now crates are seen as a way of keeping dogs from destroying the house- Some dogs are crated 8 hours a day while the owner works- with a walker coming to break up that time if they are lucky.

That is not a good life for any dog.

A decent breeder will allow you to visit their home and see puppies with mum (and dad if they have him) and will usually allow more than 1 visit.

Thanks all. As I’ve said, I have said no to this breeder.

perfectly normal for the best breeders - I was on a waiting list for a year for my last pup, waiting for the breeder to decide the time was right for her bitch to be mated.

This sounds good. Not over breeding and a true family home.
Do the usual Google searches on their information to see if anyone has left reviews anywhere. You should also be able to find FB breed pages/groups where you can ask. The breeder may even have their own FB group.

Don't walk away.

Call the RSPCA. This breeder is a scammer. You dhoukd ALWAYS see the puppies with their mum. She's so not legit. And don't give any personal details.

Don't walk away ......RUN ! A breeder that will not let you come to the home is a breeder with something to hide .
Kc assured means nothing nor does being licensed most puppy farms have a license and many show breeders have been done for abuse and neglect

Get a rescue dog. More likely to be a mix breed so less breed issues. But some rescue places do particular breeds too - just a matter of looking!

Enjoy your dog when you get it!!

It's not always that straight forward. We looked at a few local rescues they all had a policy of no kids under 12 in household.

Walk away, you should always see puppies with their mother in their home setting and the in breeding would concern me also

I have an unusual breed from a very conscientious breeder. We picked up our puppy from the breeder’s house and saw the parents and conditions they were kept in (all fine). I also follow my breeder on social media and she’s very determined that if for some reason you can’t keep the dog anymore she wants it back to re-home it herself rather than it go through the shelter system. She was able to show me the family tree and all the vets certificates and check ups etc. Serious breeders do it for the love of the breed not just for money. Also my breeder didn’t put her prices up during Covid lockdown (we waited a year for our puppy and it just happened to coincide with lockdown, it wasn’t a poor lockdown decision!) which is a good sign that she wasn’t trying to cash in over and beyond like a lot of people did when the demand went up.

Mine is a pedigree with not too many breeders but they all make sure they give each other a female puppy occasionally to keep the line free of defects. I also am encouraged by her to report any health issues with my dog so they can monitor which lines are healthiest and make sure they prevent breeding the wrong lines.

If you can’t see the dogs in their breeder environment then I wouldn’t buy from there. Trust your gut instincts.

I'd walk away TBH, but I've been scaring myself out of buying a puppy for a few years now. Always had rescues and really want a puppy just once, but I'm beginning to think I don't want the responsibility of making a wrong choice! Good luck, whatever you deide.

The second one sounds better, go with your gut instinct in your discussions and when you meet them.

Believe me, I tried, we got rejected by beagle welfare because my children were under 10. They suggested that we buy a puppy then come back to them! We did and will rescue in a year or two.