Rehoming dog

[HouseOfEssex]

I'm prepared to be flamed terribly for this but I'm desperate for an impartial ear.

We have an 8.5 month old dog, bought after a lot of research from a reputable breeder. He's obedient and well trained.

He has always resource guarded, many things but never his food. Bully sticks and long lasting treats (so he doesn't have them any more) spaces (no longer allowed in certain areas) and random things he steals (could be anything, usually non food) It has taken a LOT of work to manage this, particularly as I have 4 and 7 year old children. They have worked really hard to manage the RG with us along side a behaviourist.

He has bitten my Dad once hard enough to break the skin, both children and my husband. He has bitten me once. All as a result of guarding behaviour.

Today we had left an old pram in front of our armchair. We came in from a long walk, and the dog went to sit on the chair (he's allowed as he understands down means down from that chair) My daughter went to move the pram away from the chair for him and the dog bit her wrist (didn't break skin but left a mark) I told him down and he jumped straight down, as I moved to my daughter he lunged towards me and bit my leg.

He nipped my daughter on Friday when she went to move a pair of glasses away from him. So he's bitten her twice in 3 days.

He has to go doesn't he?

It's so hard as he's currently snoozing on my lap and can be the sweetest dog but I don't trust him around my children and would NEVER trust him around other kids who didn't understand how he can be. We usually have a big Christmas party every year and I know we can't this year as I could never relax with the dog around a load of kids.

I can't believe this has gone so wrong. I'm heartbroken

Please don’t make recommendations without any evidence to support them. Suggesting rehiring to another potentially vulnerable group is not sensible

@FurAndFeathers nope. But for what it’s worth my vet agrees with me. I’ve watched how many multiples of dogs behave together over many years. I don’t particularly care what the science is, as long as they are happy and exist together in relative peace. And they do, but they absolutely operate in a pack, even without intervention from me. I think it’s real, not because I’ve read it, but because I see it in action, every day and have done for more than 20 years. Have you??

This is a horrible position to find yourselves in but it really does sound like you've done everything you can to turn this around. RG is really hard to train out and if he's no longer even giving much of a warning before biting then he risks becoming a real danger to the kids.

You would normally see whites of the eyes, then a curl of the lip, maybe a growl and then a snap. Many dogs will snap at the air without making contact but the fact that he's so trigger happy makes it really difficult.

You say you think your home is maybe not the calm environment he needs and you're lucky enough to have a responsible breeder who will take him back. I would return him asap and try not to beat yourself up about it.

If the breeder will take him back that does sound the best option as she is fully aware of the situation
He has bitten a lot of times and can't be trusted , an dit really seems you have tried really really hard , there is only so much you can do
I love my dogs loads and loads but love my children more and if put in your position my children would be being put first , you really have gone over and above what many would of and he needs more specialised help in a different environment it seems

@Heathersnotsosmall my dog is allowed on the sofa when invited , he doesn't bite though,

@FurAndFeathers is that because a larger number are neutered though ?
Both my male dogs i have had have been neutered both have not resourced guarded ever

As a child we had a pedigree show Cocker spaniel, he had every breed related health problem going, including hip problems which meant he was kept on lead for the first 18 months, so wasn't well socialised and didn't really know how to play. Not ideal.

I now have bedlington terrier x working Cocker. Another low shedding cross. He is not perfect, but he is low shedding, loving, friendly, and sociable. He is almost 6 and will still entertain any local puppies with all out rough play and chasing. He has bad separation anxiety away from home (can't go in Kennels or home boarding), but this is more down to circumstances (HG pregnancy then lockdown meaning wasn't apart from me much) than an inherent problem with him.

Ignore all these dog snobs. I don't know how they think the pedigree breeds they are so fond of were created in the past, if it wasn't by selective breeding for certain traits and aesthetics.

Sometimes you get lucky with a dog and sometimes you get really unlucky.

Evidence based practice is that on balance earlier castration is better, as the primary reason for euthanasia of young dogs is due to behavioural issues, and the issues could have been reduced with castration (DH works for post grad veterinary school). So you've done nothing wrong their either.

Hopefully your dog can settle in a peaceful childfree home and thrive there.

I am sorry to see you are getting very snippy responses. It’s amazing how many dog behaviourists are on mumsnet. I can understand why you went for a cross breed and I’ve met many Goldendoodles and they always seem to be happy family dogs. You obviously spent time researching the breeder. So all the snotty comments about being duped are in poor taste. Finally you are not making this devastating decision because having a dog is too much hard work. This dog doesn’t suit your family. Something you wouldn’t have known until you got him. I would rehome either via the breeder or a good rescue centre and he might find a home that suits him better. We have 3 dogs of all different sizes. Pedigree and ‘ designer’ cross breed and if any bit my child without provocation, it would break my heart but I would rehome or put down.
your decision is the right thing for your family and the dog.

OP - in the kindest way, any mistakes you may or may not have made in the past are irrelevant now. You currently have dog who is highly anxious and who has bitten every single member of your household. For everyone's benefit (including his), he needs to go to an experienced home with no children.

Good luck.

Yes. Plus I also have actual qualifications as a vet and in behavioural medicine, years of working professionally with hundreds of behavioural clinical cases and post graduate qualifications.

which is why I do care about the science and understand that dog ownership is not equivalent to expertise.

your dogs would likely be happier if you spent some time educating yourself about actual dog behaviour.
’in defence of dogs’ by John Bradshaw is a good starting point.

Is what because a larger number are neutered? Sorry not sure what you’re asking ?

I haven't read the whole thread but ultimately I think you've just been unlucky.

Of course there can be variations in temperaments between litter mates. I have bred a litter myself and kept one, she is nothing like her mother who is rock steady and unflappable, equally so the father. She is highly strung and anxious by nature. She never had a bad experience, it was just her natural personality.

Anyway I think in your case I would return him to the breeder and chalk it up to experience.

Op you’ve been unlucky, dogs have issues just like people.
if I’m honest I’d pts, I couldn’t bare the thought of him being passed about or worse mistreated in a new home,
Id have a day of spoiling him rotten and then say goodbye x
very difficult decision but much like people some dogs are just wired wrong

Missed the breeder will have pup back - yes send it back and don’t best yourself up about it

@FurAndFeathers you have no idea how happy my dogs are. Fortunately for them, I do. As does my vet. You aren’t the first vet I’ve come across that insists they know best, and ignores the owner. The dog often suffers in that scenario.
And, my original point remains….ops dog should not be on the couch, significant biting at 14 weeks is not normal and in this scenario, it would be best for op and the dog that he be returned to the breeder.

I haven’t insisted I know best or ignored any owners. I simply answered your question and provided an evidence- informed response 🤷‍♀️

you are entirely welcome to reject decades of evidence as it doesn’t align with your personal opinion.

it’s almost as if you’re insisting you know best … 😁

www.apbc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/APBC-Dominance-Article.pdf

Op, you are right, it’s not the breed. You have just been unlucky.

We have 4 goldendoodles in our family, and they are all exactly what we were looking for - a non shedding/hypoallergenic dog, but calmer than a poodle or a labradoodle.

It’s so upsetting when you can see the lovely dog that he can be sometimes. And you must be so bonded to him. But it’s also devastating to know that you don’t have/won’t have the lovely family dog you dreamed of.

@HouseOfEssex I've not rtft... have you had his eyesight checked?
Some things you've mentioned don't sound like resource guarding. The pram for instance.

Hi OP. I am sorry you are going through this. I haven't read all messages but have read all of yours. The instant one that stuck out to me is him not liking his food. One of the first things to check with a dog that has behaviour issues is health which includes diet and general satisfaction with food/their stomach. From a human's point of view imagine how grumpy and short tempered you would be if you never felt satisfied, didn't like the food you were being served (dogs often get no choice about which food they are on of course) or if you had a gut issue which made you feel uncomfortable or in pain. Maybe not enough for a vet to notice but a niggling problem that made you feel rotten. I would 100% be looking into his diet and gut health. It is just not normal for a puppy (I mean when you first got him) to be biting people so I would seriously be looking into his health and, in particular his eating, closely if you do decide to keep him. Or encourage his new home to do the same.

I've spoken to the breeder today, she is making arrangements to have him back. I'm heartbroken. Feel like I've failed us all but mainly the dog, can't look at him without crying

I think passing him back to the breeder is the right thing to do.

there are an awful lot of people who will give you advice from vets to behaviourists to trainers to joe public and not all of it is good. As an owner we do need to try and filter out the good from the bad- and from your posts it appears you have repeatedly been given bad advice time and time again, and haven’t been able to spot it. It worries me slightly when you say you wouldn’t consider another dog until your youngest is 10, I don’t think as things stand at the moment you should be considering ever getting another dog again- not until you can start to recognise when you need to get second opinions or turn in other directions.

the fact you say the pup had issues from 8 weeks concerns me slightly- this really isn’t normal so I would question the pups upbringing at home.

the decision to neuter so young was bonkers and incredibly bad advice. A dog marking in inappropriate places can be easily trained out, Managing the anxiety should’ve been the priority and neutering was the worst decision for that.

I think this dog will do better with a calm quiet household that they find more predictable. But for you if you ever want another dog again I would urge you to go along to some training classes as a spectator and maybe volunteer with some competition style things - is there a groodle association that you can start hanging around with to give yourself a better knowledge base?

@SarahSissions that's not a compassionate post op had already heard everything you've just said in this thread with bells on, to suggest she shouldn't get a dog ever again and you're concerned is too much.
Of course op will take plenty out of this experience which will inform any other decisions, anyone reading her posts can hear that.
Op, this is really distressing you deserve better than this as your first reply to your positive update.
I hope the breeder finds a suitable home or keeps him and you have future updates showing it was the right choice.
It's a brave thing to know when to quit and when to carry on and you're doing the right thing. Pup will be happier.

If you come back to this thread, OP, and I wouldn't blame if you didn't, I really feel for you. Hopefully, the breeder will be able to update with good news and you will find a dog that is a better match for you all. Every animal teaches us something and you never stop learning!

@SarahSissions Thanks so much for your reply. The way I feel now I'll never have another dog again. I do genuinely wonder what more I could have done?

I read extensively about choosing and raising puppies. I was so careful about choosing a breeder. I went to accredited puppy classes and RSPCA training classes. When things started to go wrong I sought advice from a well respected vet practice and accredited behaviourist.

Honestly, what else would you have had me do?