Rehoming dog

[HouseOfEssex]

I'm prepared to be flamed terribly for this but I'm desperate for an impartial ear.

We have an 8.5 month old dog, bought after a lot of research from a reputable breeder. He's obedient and well trained.

He has always resource guarded, many things but never his food. Bully sticks and long lasting treats (so he doesn't have them any more) spaces (no longer allowed in certain areas) and random things he steals (could be anything, usually non food) It has taken a LOT of work to manage this, particularly as I have 4 and 7 year old children. They have worked really hard to manage the RG with us along side a behaviourist.

He has bitten my Dad once hard enough to break the skin, both children and my husband. He has bitten me once. All as a result of guarding behaviour.

Today we had left an old pram in front of our armchair. We came in from a long walk, and the dog went to sit on the chair (he's allowed as he understands down means down from that chair) My daughter went to move the pram away from the chair for him and the dog bit her wrist (didn't break skin but left a mark) I told him down and he jumped straight down, as I moved to my daughter he lunged towards me and bit my leg.

He nipped my daughter on Friday when she went to move a pair of glasses away from him. So he's bitten her twice in 3 days.

He has to go doesn't he?

It's so hard as he's currently snoozing on my lap and can be the sweetest dog but I don't trust him around my children and would NEVER trust him around other kids who didn't understand how he can be. We usually have a big Christmas party every year and I know we can't this year as I could never relax with the dog around a load of kids.

I can't believe this has gone so wrong. I'm heartbroken

Not your fault, OP. The dog sounds good on paper and if you've witnessed happy and well-adjusted parents of that crossbreed, you're hardly likely to expect random aggression in a pup. I would rehome. It sounds miserable for everyone including the dog, which will live for years yet. What's the point?

Regardless of “breed”, no dog should be allowed on the furniture, especially a dog with problems such as this. By allowing him on the furniture, you elevate his status to the same as yourselves. He needs (needed) to learn his place in the hierarchy and that he’s below humans in the pecking order.
How many more warnings do you need? He’s bitten several times already, do you really want a next time…?

@Heathersnotsosmall We were advised that dogs on the sofa is fine, if we want, as long as he waits to be invited and jumps down as soon as he is told, which he does. I don't subscribe to dominance based training methods

Dog on the sofa isn't fine if he's biting whilst up there. Dog on the floor. It doesn't matter if you don't subscribe to it. Your dog thinks he is boss and with that is coming the biting.

@CB98xx Doesn't matter where he is tbh, he's bitten in different positions. He wasn't allowed on the furniture until he was about 5/6 months old, it's made no difference to his temperament

@HouseOfEssex
Honestly neutering an anxious dog early us the worst thing you could have done. It removes the surge of confidence that comes with make puberty and ameliorates the anxiety.

i’d be seeking alternate veterinary advice and considering

1. a pain medication trial (over 60% of behaviour cases have chronic pain as an underlying factor)
2. reviewing his parents hip and elbow scores, and getting a dental examination to look for lingually displaced canine teeth (very common in this crossbreed and often overlooked) to check for potentially painful contritions
3. an anti anxiety medication trial

I agree with others that he shouldn’t be on the sofa, I don’t allow any dogs on furniture.
More exercise so often helpful. Another more confident dog who is top dog and well behaved is often he answer to the problem. Acquiring an older very well behaved dog is difficult though.

This is frankly, bollocks.

digs aren’t chickens, they don’t have a pecking order and even if they did there’s no situation in canine ethology where dogs have evolved to equate a sofa with position in a (mythical) pecking order. They aren’t humans curtsying to Royals on thrones!

Yes introducing a competitor to an anxious resource-guarding dog.
that sounds like a fool-proof solution 🙄

Have you ever taken him for professional training? They can work wonders. But to answer your question, I think he has to go.

I didn't want a poodle as they are highly intelligent, high energy dogs

As, indeed, are Golden Retrievers. The difference would be that by introducing the GR, you probably reduced any reduction in allergy effects from the Poodle.

I say this for others who may be considering them, not to kick you while you're down - clearly you thought you'd done things well and you are now having to make a horrible decision - but honestly a 'reputable breeder' of a cross like this is vanishingly rare and is probably just a clever marketeer.

I have never met anyone with this cross that hasn't found it very hard going indeed. My cousin is going through very similar to your issues now.

Add to that the fact that your dog is barely touching adolescence yet, and will become far more challenging - and the fact that you've neutered him under poor advice, when you say he is anxious (it is advised not to neuter anxious/nervous males, as the removal of testosterone can make things worse).

Yes, I do think he needs to go, absolutely. Let's hope the breeder is indeed sensible, and doesn't see this as an opportunity to sell him on to someone else without making his issues very clear.

@FurAndFeathers Thank you for your helpful and constructive reply. His parents hip and elbow scores are fine. He was query hip displasia so has been xrayed at great cost and expert review in the USA found no issue. He had his teeth thoroughly checked when he was under anaesthetic to be castrated.

The vet advised castration earlier as at a check up at 7 months he lifted his leg and peed all over her room several times the week earlier he peed on someone's handbag and he had saturated the groomers too. The vet advised that can become ingrained behaviour and recommended neutering asap

I thought it was a half greyhound and poodle!
Mongerals are hard dogs because you don't what part of the breed is going to be most prevailing

@elizabethdraper I think they're more commonly known as Goldendoodles in the UK but even so they're a very well known mongerel 🤷🏻‍♀️

The issue is not necessarily related to being a crossbreed. But I'm trying to get a picture of daily life in your household. You mentioned that he is well-trained and obedient, content to be on his own at times, happy to sleep on your lap. But sometimes his anxiety is triggered which leads to nipping. Can you pinpoint what things/situations trigger his anxiety? What has your behaviourist recommended? Have you tried any natural calming remedies, an Adaptil diffuser, etc.? Vets can also prescribe anti-anxiety medication if deemed necessary. I agree with PPs that neutering so young was probably a mistake, but obviously that is something that can't be undone.

I have a young dog at the moment who is just over a year old. His maturity and development over the past few months have been remarkable. His behaviour is very different now to what it was at 8 months. I've had dogs for many years and it never ceases to amaze me how they can mature so quickly. I don't know how your dog will develop, of course.

I'm conflicted in the face of all this superiority about pure breed dogs and hilarity about what a Groodle could possibly be.

Firstly, I'm so glad you're amused by what is a horrible time for me and my young children.

Secondly, I grew up with English Springer Spaniels, oh yes, a proper breed! I chose this cross breed after a lot of research, including into pure bred non shedding breeds.

And thirdly, yes, I can see now I may have made a HUGE mistake so acknowledge the truth in what you are saying 😔

Yep that’s classic anxiety behaviour. Marking is one of the characteristics of hyper vigilant anxiety.

not much you can do now as the balls are off, but certainly in the UK most vets and behaviourists would have suggested waiting (or at least doing a suprelorelin trial to assess the impacts of castration on his anxiety prior to performing an irreversible surgery).

are you sure his teeth have been checked for lingual displacement? Not just a glance that they ‘look ok’ whilst under GA?

elbow dysplasia?

when you say his parents hip and elbow scores are fine what does that mean? How do they compare to the breed averages?

I really feel for you OP. It must be so worrying for you and for all of the unhelpful suggestions people have given you (go back and not choose that breed?! Go back and not castrate the dog, against vet advice?!) and all of the helpful suggestions you've had (which it sounds like you've done most of!) you clearly are a caring and conscientious pet owner.

Nothing is worth the worry that your dog will bite a child or the stress that your household clearly is under as a result of your dog's tendencies. People on Mumsnet can be incredibly hardline about moving dogs on. Fair enough if an irresponsible pet owner takes on a dog without research and then won't put the hard work in - but that's clearly not your situation.

You don't need anyone's permission to pass the dog back to the breeder, and in fact that seems like the perfect solution. The breeder can work with the dog and work to find a calm home where the RG won't be an issue.

I wish you the best of luck with it - it's a really hard situation but it's one where you have to be pragmatic and prioritise your family's safety and wellbeing.

@HouseOfEssex
“Resource guarding is highly represented in neutered dogs in comparison to intact dogs (Reisner et al., 2007); however, it was neutered males who were more likely to be implicated in human-directed growling and resource guarding rather than females (Guy et al., 2001; Jacobs et al., 2018). Children hospitalised with resource guarding-related dog bites were statistically more likely to have been bitten by a neutered dog (Jacobs et al., 2018).”

www.veterinary-practice.com/article/effects-of-neutering-on-undesirable-behaviours-in-dogs

i’dbe critically evaluating your vet and behavioural advice and potentially sense checking it, as their advice to neuter a resource guarding anxious male dog runs contrary to the evidence

Oh OP - it's nothing you've done or not done. It's not the breed and it's not your fault

Some dogs are just like this, irrespective of training

You bought a puppy with the intentions of it being a family dog and it's really tough to acknowledge that it hasn't worked out despite your best efforts

I'd take your focus away from the past now and focus on the future and that seems very clear to me ... you cannot have a dog in your home who is biting your young children and it's as simple a decision as that

The breeder has agreed to take the dog back. I'd do just this and then work to put it all behind you without beating yourself up

@dreamersdown
literally no one has suggested the OP go back in time and not castrate her dog, that post is ridiculous.

if you like I could suggest that she’s had brilliant evidence-based advice and should trust the professionals but she hasn’t, and it’s worth her being aware of that when she seeks advice and considers her future options or discounts other causes and potential solutions to her dog’s behaviour.

@FurAndFeathers That's interesting reading, and I've certainly learned a lot from this thread, but the fact is the dog resource guarded and had anxiety driven aggression from the day we got him at 8 weeks.

I can't change the fact he's now now castrated. He's been on an oral calming supplement and had a homeopathic oil applied for the last 4 months.

I don't think keeping him is an option tbh as whatever my feelings my husband was shocked by how he behaved today

Your dog sounds very stressed! Some serious training needed from a professional trainer. But if you're not prepared to take the risk of further biting during training the the kindest thing to do is rehome it to a quieter/calmer/less busy home.
No doubt you love it very much, but loving it means doing the best for it.
Perhaps wait about three more years before getting another, so that your youngest child is 7. To me, young kids and dogs are never a sensible mix.

@ChocChipOwl Thank you for your kind message. You're right, and it really is as simple as that. There may be more work I can do, I've no doubt made mistakes,he may improve over time. BUT he's bitten my 4 year old daughter twice in 3 days and it's far from the first time. Surely that's reason enough for me not to feel safe keeping him?

@Adultchildofelderlyparents You're absolutely right. He is very stressed. When I'm home alone with him all day, and most evenings he's a different dog. And my kids are "good" with him but they are loud, and unpredictable and chaotic. And that's stressing him out.

I told my husband today I wouldn't even consider another dog until my youngest was 10.....