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The doghouse

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Original poster

Rehoming dog

138 replies

HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 12:47

I'm prepared to be flamed terribly for this but I'm desperate for an impartial ear.

We have an 8.5 month old dog, bought after a lot of research from a reputable breeder. He's obedient and well trained.

He has always resource guarded, many things but never his food. Bully sticks and long lasting treats (so he doesn't have them any more) spaces (no longer allowed in certain areas) and random things he steals (could be anything, usually non food) It has taken a LOT of work to manage this, particularly as I have 4 and 7 year old children. They have worked really hard to manage the RG with us along side a behaviourist.

He has bitten my Dad once hard enough to break the skin, both children and my husband. He has bitten me once. All as a result of guarding behaviour.

Today we had left an old pram in front of our armchair. We came in from a long walk, and the dog went to sit on the chair (he's allowed as he understands down means down from that chair) My daughter went to move the pram away from the chair for him and the dog bit her wrist (didn't break skin but left a mark) I told him down and he jumped straight down, as I moved to my daughter he lunged towards me and bit my leg.

He nipped my daughter on Friday when she went to move a pair of glasses away from him. So he's bitten her twice in 3 days.

He has to go doesn't he?

It's so hard as he's currently snoozing on my lap and can be the sweetest dog but I don't trust him around my children and would NEVER trust him around other kids who didn't understand how he can be. We usually have a big Christmas party every year and I know we can't this year as I could never relax with the dog around a load of kids.

I can't believe this has gone so wrong. I'm heartbroken

OP posts:
Original poster
HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:44

@krustykittens Thank you for your kindness. I've moved along horses that don't suit before with much less hand wringing than this. With horses I subscribe to the mantra they're meant to be fun, I don't know why I'm finding this so hard

OP posts:
Allthestarsabovemyhead · 26/09/2022 17:46

Could he go into residential training for a few weeks? I have a super crazy sprointer and my trainer has suggested this as he is such a handful.

Original poster
HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:46

@FamBae Hug gratefully received and much appreciated. I'm not sure I've conveyed how much I love the grumpy sod, and how much I'll miss him if he goes

OP posts:
krustykittens · 26/09/2022 17:47

Probably because you feel this is all your fault and so you should be able to fix it easily! I don't think it is at all. x

CleopatrasBeautifulNose · 26/09/2022 17:49

I think it is unfair people are criticising the breeding when you've met multiple generations of his family and all were happy dogs. This is exactly what a responsible new owner should do and great that the breeder had that option, no puppy farm error here.
It could be that you've been unlucky to get a nervous personality who needed a quiet home, but you couldn't have known that and you've taken all the professional advice available.
I think back to the breeder if you think they will be responsible and only rehome him with someone who has full knowledge of his background and who can manage the triggers. But if there is any risk of him being passed around as home after home discover they can't manage him it would be kinder to pts now.
I don't think you've done anything wrong op, from what you've said here.
It is just a sad situation. 💐

FamBae · 26/09/2022 17:49

Sorry @hedgehogscrossing That was for meant for the OP @HouseOfEssex

yasminisa · 26/09/2022 17:51

Can you start crating him and re-introduce a puppy structured day. A properly structured day would help with anxiety issues, crate would help.

Original poster
HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:51

@krustykittens Yes, and because despite his behaviour the kids love him and will be really sad for a while

OP posts:
FurAndFeathers · 26/09/2022 17:52

HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:34

@FurAndFeathers We are in Aus so lots of resources available and I'd imagine same medications available as UK.

The one thing the dog doesn't guard is his food 😂 He's a really poor/fussy eater. Couldn't care less about his actual meals. He never rushed to his bowl to eat and wouldn't care at all if it was taken away

Honestly I’d be wondering if this is all resource guarding.

the growling with bones/long term chews - yep sounds fairly classic.

the pram move and some of the other incidents honestly sound more like a fear/threat response. I don’t necessarily think he’s guarding those things, I think he might be scared of them/threatened by them moving near to him.

if you/the breeder did want additional support I’d suggest looking at www.sabs.com.au/about

worth a chat even if you aren’t local

Hoppinggreen · 26/09/2022 17:53

HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 15:51

@OldTinHat Your definition of the poodle is why I didn't get a purebred poodle. The GR is to dilute those tendencies to make a better family dog. But thanks for your helpful insight at this difficult time for my family

Goldies can be buggers for RG - this is the risk with cross breeds, you have no idea what you are getting.
Breeder needs to take him back immediately. If they won’t get in touch with a crossbreed rescue and emphasise and adult only home

hedgehogscrossing · 26/09/2022 17:53

@FamBae no worries!

Original poster
HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:54

@yasminisa The laundry is his room. It's enclosed and gated off and the children don't go in there if he is. He removes himself to his bed there when he needs space. We got rid of the crate as he outgrew it at 6 months and I didn't think he needed it any more. As I'm a SAHM he has a very structured routine already tbh, all that changes is where he is walked

OP posts:
Original poster
HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:57

@Hoppinggreen I'm really trying not to be defensive but I met his grandparents, both parents and spoke to 4 people that own his full siblings from another litter, all gave glowing reviews. Surely I've just been unlucky?

OP posts:
vicki47 · 26/09/2022 17:58

I'm so sorry that you are in such a situation and you are receiving such a lot of stick. I have two dogs and four (grown up now) kids and I can't imagine how you are feeling but you are right- you need to let the dog go.

Fraaahnces · 26/09/2022 18:08

I think it sounds like you’ve done everything reasonable to keep the dog. Your DH and yourself are going to be anxious with him in the house and I think his anxiety will respond in kind. I also wouldn’t trust him with such little kids. I also have an anxious dog. She is dog-reactive and I wouldn’t trust her with little kids either. (She’s fine with mine - the youngest two were nine when we got her.) I can’t have friends with small kids around. I can’t walk her myself as she wants to guard me from every single dog in the universe and she’s huge. There are a lot of idiots with fluffy, white “don’t worry he’s friendly” Dog’s with no bloody recall being walked off lead around my house and I know she would hurt if it came up to me. She’s fine with my DH because she feels safe. I considered rejoining her when she bit our postman, but the ring doorbell showed him whacking her with parcels in the days prior to him ignoring the “beware of the dog” sign and coming into our property.

suggestionsplease1 · 26/09/2022 18:11

I think this is a no brainer - return him to the breeder.

Yes certain things might help but you don't have the time to find that out when you and your family are living in fear of him and more bites could happen.

I have a resource guarding cocker spaniel and I can certainly say that keeping him off the sofa, bed, and generally reinforcing an atmosphere where I am in charge has helped mitigate the tendancies. So my dog has lots of instructions to work to, which he loves and he is clear on expectations now. (But this atmosphere was instilled during calm times, at times when his resource guarding was very bad confronting him would have led to an escalation of response) . Jean Donaldson's book'Mine' is very good at working through desensitizing, counter-conditioning but with kids present I don't think you have the kind of environment & time to see how you get on with this.

Finally I have found fluoxetine effective for my dog, who has not bitten in the 20 months he has been on it. But again, you don't have the environment or time to explore this, I was able to persist as I am in an adult only household with everyone on board, and despite his amazing progress with all these interventions I don't think he could ever be considered fully trustable and I would certainly not have him around children.

I also believe there can be a strong genetic component to this area giving rise to predisposition, so really don't blame yourself.

krustykittens · 26/09/2022 18:12

"I considered rejoining her when she bit our postman, but the ring doorbell showed him whacking her with parcels in the days prior to him ignoring the “beware of the dog” sign and coming into our property."

OMG!!!!! What a twat!

thefartingfish · 26/09/2022 18:17

You are being a responsible dog owner - you can see neither you or the dog are happy and it is time to part ways. There is no point waiting until there is a serious incident with your daughter.

His behaviour shows he is happier when left alone and in a quiet environment. He is probably better suited in a house without children. I have friends with cockapoo dogs, some hate been touched (but not aggressive but in a no kids household) and others climb into your lap for a back scratch. The breed does not guarantee the behaviour.

You have the best possible option here which is to return him to the breeder.

Suzi888 · 26/09/2022 18:18

Agree- however heartbreaking it is he needs a quiet, adult only home. I think you’ve done all you can, sometimes you jus have to call it in.

If your DH is afraid of the dog then that’s game over isn’t it.

The dog can still have a happy life, in the right home.

Kenwouldmixitup · 26/09/2022 18:28

Back to the breeder with recommendation that a retired couple home the dog. Result one happy dog - potentially. Why keep the dog in a setting that he is not thriving in simply to save face.

Remagirl · 26/09/2022 18:29

Whitney168 · 26/09/2022 16:32

I didn't want a poodle as they are highly intelligent, high energy dogs

As, indeed, are Golden Retrievers. The difference would be that by introducing the GR, you probably reduced any reduction in allergy effects from the Poodle.

I say this for others who may be considering them, not to kick you while you're down - clearly you thought you'd done things well and you are now having to make a horrible decision - but honestly a 'reputable breeder' of a cross like this is vanishingly rare and is probably just a clever marketeer.

I have never met anyone with this cross that hasn't found it very hard going indeed. My cousin is going through very similar to your issues now.

Add to that the fact that your dog is barely touching adolescence yet, and will become far more challenging - and the fact that you've neutered him under poor advice, when you say he is anxious (it is advised not to neuter anxious/nervous males, as the removal of testosterone can make things worse).

Yes, I do think he needs to go, absolutely. Let's hope the breeder is indeed sensible, and doesn't see this as an opportunity to sell him on to someone else without making his issues very clear.

Just to say I have a Golden Doodle I rescued as a 3 year old. He is the sweetest dog who is a million times easier than my last two pure bred dogs (Basset and a Beagle) that said I've been around scent hounds all my life so knew how to train and manage them. Socialisation, boundaries and exercise are the key. My boy has a lot of energy, he is scared of most things but is very loving.

Buildingthefuture · 26/09/2022 18:31

You don’t subscribe to dominance theory? How many dogs have you actually had op?
I have been lucky enough to have many multiples of dogs, for many years, mostly rescues. Keep a pack of dogs and you see just how real pack/dominance theory is.
You can argue the “pack leader” theory all you want, but, even taking me out of the equation, they have a pecking order that they sort out themselves. This becomes even more apparent when a more dominant dog dies….the pack has to work to re establish the pecking order.
Your dog should absolutely not be on the couch. End of. I have some that can go on the couch and be absolutely fine. I have others that will absolutely bite if allowed on the couch (but, with a lot of work are fine off). Grumpy dogs do not get sofa privileges.
Having said all that, if your dog actually bit, with real intention and aggression at 14 weeks, that would be unusual and suggestive of a bigger problem. Which has continued as he’s got older. I’ve owned 30+ rescues and have never experienced the behaviour you describe, from even the most traumatised dog. I think you are an inexperienced owner, who, through no fault of your own, bought a dog with inherent behavioural issues. In your circumstances I would return the dog to the breeder.

FurAndFeathers · 26/09/2022 18:42

Buildingthefuture · 26/09/2022 18:31

You don’t subscribe to dominance theory? How many dogs have you actually had op?
I have been lucky enough to have many multiples of dogs, for many years, mostly rescues. Keep a pack of dogs and you see just how real pack/dominance theory is.
You can argue the “pack leader” theory all you want, but, even taking me out of the equation, they have a pecking order that they sort out themselves. This becomes even more apparent when a more dominant dog dies….the pack has to work to re establish the pecking order.
Your dog should absolutely not be on the couch. End of. I have some that can go on the couch and be absolutely fine. I have others that will absolutely bite if allowed on the couch (but, with a lot of work are fine off). Grumpy dogs do not get sofa privileges.
Having said all that, if your dog actually bit, with real intention and aggression at 14 weeks, that would be unusual and suggestive of a bigger problem. Which has continued as he’s got older. I’ve owned 30+ rescues and have never experienced the behaviour you describe, from even the most traumatised dog. I think you are an inexperienced owner, who, through no fault of your own, bought a dog with inherent behavioural issues. In your circumstances I would return the dog to the breeder.

Are you a qualified dentist/gynaecologist/dermatologist/haematologist as well?

or is it only dogs where you think proximity = expertise?

there is zero evidence for dominance theory in domestic dogs. All the research shows that free roaming domestic dogs form loose groups focussed around a food source with no long term pack structure or dominance relationship.

even in wolves dominance doesn’t exist - only parent-pup relationships.

Hoppinggreen · 26/09/2022 18:43

HouseOfEssex · 26/09/2022 17:57

@Hoppinggreen I'm really trying not to be defensive but I met his grandparents, both parents and spoke to 4 people that own his full siblings from another litter, all gave glowing reviews. Surely I've just been unlucky?

I don’t blame you for being defensive, people are having a go ( I’m not by the way). You have made some mistakes (we all do) but it’s what you do next that counts.
Back to The Breeder immediately, with young children in the house you can’t risk it. Our Goldie had some issues and we worked through them with a professional but my red line was him biting the DC, if he had he would have had to go immediately

FurAndFeathers · 26/09/2022 18:44

Just to add - what you see as a grumpy dog exerting sofa dominance is quite simply an anxious dog guarding a resource (comfy sofa, proximity to human) from multiple competitors