Rehoming dog

[HouseOfEssex]

I'm prepared to be flamed terribly for this but I'm desperate for an impartial ear.

We have an 8.5 month old dog, bought after a lot of research from a reputable breeder. He's obedient and well trained.

He has always resource guarded, many things but never his food. Bully sticks and long lasting treats (so he doesn't have them any more) spaces (no longer allowed in certain areas) and random things he steals (could be anything, usually non food) It has taken a LOT of work to manage this, particularly as I have 4 and 7 year old children. They have worked really hard to manage the RG with us along side a behaviourist.

He has bitten my Dad once hard enough to break the skin, both children and my husband. He has bitten me once. All as a result of guarding behaviour.

Today we had left an old pram in front of our armchair. We came in from a long walk, and the dog went to sit on the chair (he's allowed as he understands down means down from that chair) My daughter went to move the pram away from the chair for him and the dog bit her wrist (didn't break skin but left a mark) I told him down and he jumped straight down, as I moved to my daughter he lunged towards me and bit my leg.

He nipped my daughter on Friday when she went to move a pair of glasses away from him. So he's bitten her twice in 3 days.

He has to go doesn't he?

It's so hard as he's currently snoozing on my lap and can be the sweetest dog but I don't trust him around my children and would NEVER trust him around other kids who didn't understand how he can be. We usually have a big Christmas party every year and I know we can't this year as I could never relax with the dog around a load of kids.

I can't believe this has gone so wrong. I'm heartbroken

@HouseOfEssex does he give any warning signs before he nips/bites? What does he do immediately after?

why isn’t he on evidence-based anti-anxiety meds. Honestly the homeopathy has zero evidence to support it - it’s not a treatment for anything.

no you can’t change the fact he’s castrated but my point is that it appears that you’re getting pretty poor professional advice. So I’d be very careful of taking the dental assessment etc at face value.

A dog that has this level of anxiety needs appropriate and effective medication. He should also have an analgesic trial.

keeping him might not be an option but it’s worth bearing in mind that there are actual evidence based options that can be considered no matter who manages him.

That’s absolutely a good enough reason to give him back to the breeder as she will take him. He may not be happy in your house and you might be able to turn it around with enough time and behavioural help but all the while your kids are in danger from this dog. He’s only going to get bigger and stronger and his bites will do more damage.

@hedgehogscrossing He usually growls first. Today he didn't give any warning just nipped my daughters wrist. When I moved towards her he tensed and i didn't take heed as 1) I was worried about her arm and 2) I was in shock he had RG a bloody pram. So I accept his lunge T me was entirely my fault.

I've had what I feel is good advice about managing the RG but today proved to me that it can't always be managed and I'm worried about what he might do

Absolutely it's a good enough reason to return him. You cannot take any more risks with him and the sense of relief you'll feel once done will be immense (after a period of sadness of course)

He's just not right for your family and with the best will in the world, you can't monitor young children in always being very careful round him. Just won't work as he is unpredictable

The right dog will be waiting for you in due course, you're a good dog owner but more than that, you're a protective parent and that has to come first

A massive resource guarding dog and small children is a really bad combination.

If the offer to return to the breeder is there then that is what you should do. It sounds like you've been aware of the issue and tried your best.

They are selling dogs with in-bred RG issues so let let them deal with the consequences.

The best and safest thing for your family and young children is not to live with this dog.

The best and safest thing for this dog is not to live with your family and young children.

You know what you have to do. You’ve tried a lot, and it hasn’t worked. It’s not your fault; it’s not the dog’s fault. The breeder really needs to know and take this seriously.

If the breeder will take him back that's a brilliant result for him and sounds like for you too. As much as I adore dogs and have always had one with and without children involved, I would never entertain a dog such as your chap who bites and growls at random, no matter what. It's a disaster waiting to happen it really is and I'm sure you realise this. Take him back to the breeder she is doing the responsible thing and only realistic thing.

@FurAndFeathers I do appreciate your clearly knowledgeable and considered replys.

Just goes to show how much there is to learn, I'm sure you're right about medication etc but I have enough on managing life without managing a really difficult dog as well. He was meant to enhance my life not make it so much harder. The fact that he is clearly not happy here if he's feeling so much anxiety makes me so sad

Then your decision is made.

you aren’t posting for advice, or an impartial ear. But for validation on a decision you’ve already made.

no one is going to argue that you’re unreasonable for being concerned about your children’s safety, so I’m not really sure what else you’re after?

Exactly what wanted to know . Never heard of a groodle

He is very young and still learning .
I would give him back to the breeder and she can train and rehome him to someone without young children .

@FurAndFeathers In all honesty that's exactly why I'm posting I guess, for validation, or to make myself feel better about what I feel I have to do. I can hear your understandable frustration.

I honestly never thought I would end up here (I guess no one does of course)

In your experience, how effective is anti anxiety medication in helping to reduce the sort of behaviour I've described? Is it maybe worth a try I wonder? I can't help but feel it won't change his basic temperament?

I just have visions of one of my childrens friends reaching under the table to pick up a ball and the dog biting them, I can't live with that level of worry

I have two anxious dogs and it is so hard. Even with training and all the measures in place, you are still constantly on alert. I've had massive improvements with mine but it has taken time and so much work to make them feel safe.

It must break your heart to see your dog unhappy and to be so alert to all his behaviours (especially as there are children involved). Rehoming him is going to be the best thing for all of you. I'm not usually an advocate for rehoming (too many people do it too easily) but I can hear the emotion in your writing and realise that it is not an easy decision for you to have reached. Sometimes, the best thing for the dog is the hardest decision for the owner.

I really feel for you. It sounds as if you’ve done your best in a tough situation. I’ve bred, trained and exhibited 4 different breeds, always having at least 2 dogs in our family so I have a lot of experience. It sounds as if this dog is really stressed in your busy home environment and needs a different family with less going on. With careful handling he could settle down in a new home but he isn’t for you.

My best advice would be to give him back to the breeder who will find him a new home. Meanwhile he’ll be in a familiar environment.

I’ve only ever had 8 litters of puppies but I’ve taken back 3 pups from homes that proved not to be right, despite everyone’s best efforts. This is the responsibility of the breeder. The breeder will let you know what happens to him.

You deserve credit for doing the right thing by your dog.

@HouseOfEssex a really upsetting situation for you especially as you researched and planned for him. Im just wondering how you could get to the root of why he feels he has to RG, does he show anxiety around noise or any situations? When he was much younger did you try swapping one treat/toy for another?

I think there is a big difference between nipping and letting ago and a full on attack. Can he wear a muzzle in certain situations and see how he matures?

@hedgehogscrossing He isn't noticeably anxious in other situations, he loves other dogs and most people (some he will instantly be afraid of and growl) He isn't bothered by loud noise, he didn't like loud traffic when younger but I did some desensitisation and he is now fine.

He did find it hard to settle when younger but I'd say from about 6 months that really improved and his evenings are now calm.

The anxiety just comes out as RG. We have NEVER taken toys from him, we always swapped things out from when he was a puppy and that's what we successfully do now. We don't try and take hold of him to move him, we use something to lure him. But the pram thing today was a whole new situation and one I don't think I could have predicted which is what has shaken us all

It can be very effective.
but my concern is that neither your vet nor behaviourist have developed an appropriate behaviour modification plan (including medication) already so I’m not sure how much effective support you have, and the advice you’ve received so far seems not entirely up to date. It also depends on what is available meds-wise (as you’re outside the UK)

also out of interest have you/your breeder ever done any ‘food removing whilst eating’ and what age was your pup rehomed to you?

there are lots of risk factors for this type of behaviour so it would be difficult to give any reassurances about solving it without all the info. And children in the house always make the situation more difficult to manage, may well be a source of anxiety for the dog, and the risks are of course greater. It’s not unreasonable to give him back, but I would perhaps try and discuss some of the other options for support that the breeder may want to investigate.

@hedgehogscrossing With the glasses the other day my daughter saw the dog might try and take them ,he steals anything he can reach, and so she went to move them. When she turned her back to him he nipped her causing a graze on her back. She's 4. She shouldn't have to manage the dog like that

@FurAndFeathers We are in Aus so lots of resources available and I'd imagine same medications available as UK.

The one thing the dog doesn't guard is his food 😂 He's a really poor/fussy eater. Couldn't care less about his actual meals. He never rushed to his bowl to eat and wouldn't care at all if it was taken away

... fact my 6'5" husband is scared of the dog

Please return to breeder ASAP.

If your family is scared of the dog then the dog will definitely pick up on it. In return, your dog will also feel scared and scared dogs nip/ bite.

IMO a dog that intimidates, nips and bites both its owners and their children is in the wrong home. So it must go, @HouseOfEssex, yes. You are right.

It sounds hellish for you, your family and the dog. Some dogs do not get on with kids and sometimes, you are just not the right home, no matter how much effort you have made. His breeder is willing to take him back and make sure he goes to a home that suits him better, I would send him back ASAP. I have a very anxious terrier, she has always been that way. She came from a great breeder, who sold us our older dog, we have had her from eight weeks old but she was always twitchy. She was then attacked as an adolescent by another dog and that seemed to cement her terror of strange people and dogs. She has never bitten but I honestly think it is because she has never felt forced to. We have tried everything and all we can really do is manage her fear sympathetically, according to advice from a behaviourist. We are lucky because she is the sweetest dog with us, was great with the kids when they were little and children are the only strangers she is comfortable with. But I muzzle her at the vets and I am lucky enough to live on a farm and exercise her on my own land, away from other people and dogs. She will literally run screaming in a blind panic if a dog bounds up to her to play and I would not trust her not to snap if a stranger tried to handle her. I have had terriers all my life, I am very experienced as a dog owner, I did my research, I bought from a breeder I had already bought the 'perfect' terrier from and I cannot change her fear. She is who she is. We even tried agility - after six weeks she relaxed and played happily with all the other dogs in the arena during a break but it made no difference when meeting dogs and people she didn't know.

I know this is a heartbreaking decision to be in, but it will be a relief and you are doing it for the dog's sake as much as your own. We had to re-home a rescue horse who simply could not live with a mixed herd without guaerding the mares and attackign the geldings. My daughter cried handing him back to the rescue centre and she felt like she had failed with him. But they updated us when he found a forever home, with a single lady on a gelding only livery yard. She kept him on a very strict routine, which soothed his anxiety (ours live out and pretty much do what they want!) and she had a very intense one on one relationship with him, which he loved. Not every home suits. Give your children a cuddle and start again. We recently adopted a little Havanese and she is a delight. Also, very, very small so maybe better for yong children? I would hate for your children to end up frightened of dogs. x

Sorry for all the typos!

@hedgehogscrossing, I'm so sorry you are experiencing this, you never know what temperament a dog has until they are in your home, it is truly the luck of the drawer when choosing puppies, two cross breed dogs I have owned in the past were the most loving and delightful family dogs but their siblings were a nightmare and displayed the worst personality traits of the breeds they were crossed with and the families had to return them to the breeders. You sound like you have gone above and beyond but the trust has gone so I think you owe it to your family to let the breeder re home, it will be hard but could be the best decision you could make for the dog. I know a dog who was a biter / nipper eventually had to be put outside when family and friends visited and generally made every ones lives miserable including the other dogs in the household and itself, once it was re homed in a quiet, child free, dog free home it became a totally different dog, relaxed and happy. Sending you a huge hug as I think you need it right now.