Dog attacked another dog unprovoked

[Dogincident]

Just as the title says really. Our dog was out with our walker, had just left the house and was down the road when she attacked another dog as it came around the corner. Walker brought her back to the house and as she was unlocking the door the other owner walked past with the dog and she launched herself at them again. I got to the door as our walker got hold of her again and took her in and locked her away whilst our walker took off after the other owner to talk.

I'm horrified, everybody was shaken up, she's never done anything like this before and whilst she's started getting a little barky at other dogs when on the lead very recently, we were told (informally but by somebody well trained) that this is normal for teenage stage and to keep on with what we were doing and continue to socialise, no other even hint at aggression. The only thing I can think of is that she was spayed two weeks ago and this is the first time she's seen the walker since then, so she was extremely excited and jumping around so maybe she's hurt herself in the moment?!

We've informed the police, popped a note through the other owners door with our information and contacted our insurance. Our insurance is saying that they won't cover it third party because our walker had her at the time. So we let our walker know but our walkers insurance apparently expired last year and she forgot to renew it.

I'm now sat waiting for the other owner to get in touch (I didn't go speak to him at the time as I have two young children and our walker went, and frankly, I was completely and utterly confused by what was going on until the walker told me that my dog had attacked his and she was going over to talk to him). We knew that we had some training that needed addressing but nothing like this, more lead pulling, recall and snatching food from the kids type thing! The things that we didn't address well being novice owners and accidentally ending up with a 'Lockdown puppy' (so ended up unable to get classes until she was an older puppy). Ironic that we purposely waited until the first Lockdown ended to get a dog as we didn't want to be one of 'those' people but apparently we are.

We were already in the process of sorting a trainer to come visit and will see if they can come sooner now, but now I'm all unsettled and wondering what to do. We have two young kids, she's usually with us all day and hangs out with us in our living room but at this moment I don't feel comfortable doing that, she's our family pet and whilst I'm always aware that she could snap at the kids because she is a dog at the end of the day, I'm now actually worried about it because she was just a completely different dog and was properly going for the poor creature. We have a ring doorbell so I have watched the second attack back.

What do we do? She's a GSD so a big and strong dog who could easily cause damage, we're lucky that she didn't do worse to the poor other dog. We did our research, waited until Lockdown ended to put a deposit on a dog, sourced her from a lovely family home that we visited repeatedly and followed the sires very active social media and could see that they were from people who know what they are doing, took her to puppy training when space became available and tried to train her at home. And now I'm wondering if i can trust her with my kids.

Dogs never attack for no reason. If it was a head on surprise greeting (around a corner) then that can often be quite confrontational for dogs, who then react out of fear or surprise.

Practical things first, I would get rid of your dog walker. She's incredibly irresponsible to be working without insurance - if the other dog is badly injured this could cost you hundreds, if not thousands of pounds. I say this is a dog walker myself - her behaviour is appalling. You don't "forget" to renew your insurance. I suspect she never had any to begin with, tbh.

I would also book an appointment with the vet to make sure your girl is healing okay from her spay (as you say, it could be that she's in pain) and for a general check over.

Then, I would look into muzzle training her ASAP, as if the police do come to speak to you, they will probably ask for her to be leashed and muzzled in public for the rest of her life.

For now, keep her away from the DC where possible (at least until she's been checked over by a vet). It's good you're seeking help from a trainer but I would also be tempted to look for a behaviourist too.

I hope you're okay and not too shaken up. What a horrible thing to happen :(

Attacking another dog does not mean a dog is a danger to your children for a start.
Also get rid of the dog walker, not having insurance is a really big deal.
Do you know what damage has actually been caused to the other dog? Dog attacks and fights can look very dramatic but a lot of it is noise.
However, it might be a good idea to muzzle when out for now until your dog has been checked by a vet and assessed by a properly qualified behaviourist.
You sound very upset and shaken but there’s no need to panic

Why have you told the police ? Why did the owner not stop to talk to you once you had your dog indoors , was the other dog actually injured ?

What type if dog is it? My neighbour has a Patterdale Terrier and he's fine with my daughter's two bitches, but him and the male dog go for each other if they meet. They're always on leads, so easily stopped.

First thing's first she needs a vet check to see if there is a physical reason for her behaviour. You could also show the vet the footage of the second incident and ask to be referred to a behaviourist (this could be covered by your insurance).

There could have been a provocation for the first incident (from your dog's point of view), today or on a previous day, even if the provocation was the other dog taking yours by surprise, or walking head on towards your dog whilst she was trapped on a lead, or looking similar to another dog that has previously attacked yours. It sounds as though your dog has been trying to communicate that she is uncomfortable/frestrated around other dogs and her communication has been ignored.

Your dog walker doesn't sound very professional if she has let her insurance expire. Does she have much knowledge about dog behaviour? Has she been walking your dog with other dogs?

Your dog needs time to decompress, so quiet time away from the kids isn't a bad thing. I wouldn't walk her for a few days and would start training her to wear a basket muzzle. Your behaviourist can show you how. Chirag Patel also has some good muzzle training videos on YouTube.

If the dog walker had charge of the dog when she attacked another dog, it's her mess to sort out, IMO. She shouldn't have been walking the dog without insurance and you engaged the services of a professional dog walker for a reason.

Dogs Trust A dog walker is also identified as being responsible for it - whilst he/she is in charge of the dog. So, a dog
walker has legal responsibilities and can also be
held criminally liable under the Act.

Yes, any vets bills arising should be the responsibility of the dogwalker - insurance or no insurance to cover them.

We had a GSD who did exactly the same thing. He would be fine for weeks and then attack a smaller, non-threatening dog without warning.
We tried everything, even had the police dog trainer out (for whom he behaved perfectly), and the trainer said just to keep him on a short lead while other dogs were around. We never solved it, other than keeping him on a lead when necessary. He was fine with humans though. It was hard to explain.

Did you witness the attack?
Was there actual biting, or just a lot of noise & scuffle?
What injuries did the other dog receive?

It's not a Twatterdale is it? We've got one. She's gorgeous to the kids, amazingly well behaved in the house but they do take dislikes to some other dogs at times.

Friends had a GSD was fine with family but very territorial with visitors human and canine. Very awkward because she had clients coming to her home. I was nipped as I put a foot out of the car so jumped back in sharpish. She was never trustworthy once she stopped being a puppy. Trainers tried to no avail.

She was a hell of a guard dog though

I called the police for advice more than anything (non emergency local line) but they said that it was worth having a report and case number for it.

We will be muzzling her in public for the time being, at least until we've had time to work with a trainer and likely a behaviourist and they feel she's okay to unmuzzle.

Other dog was definitely injured, from what I briefly saw, could see on the ring and what our walker said, it would need stitches, hopefully nothing beyond that.

The other owners dog got loose during the scuffle and was walking off so I suspect he just wanted to follow it and get it home safely. I've also found out that he told the walker that he got a bite on the foot as he was trying to kick our dog off his so he may have gone to get that checked.

We will be walking her ourselves for a while, we're upset about the lack of insurance, not just because of this but because we feel it's an essential.

I know realistically that she's just as unlikely to be dangerous to the kids as she was before, my anxiety brain is being a cunt though frankly.

How old is she and has she had a season? Before we got her spayed our dog was an absolute nightmare the week before she came into season. Just bloody horrible.

I'd probably drop by your neighbours later (with wine) and apologise. Explain you're getting her vet checked/muzzle trained/ behaviourist etc and check he is ok. When my cockapoo was attacked by a husky the owner had a go at me for kicking his dog (which was biting mine at the time) and was vile so I reported it to the police. When she was hurt by a lab the owner was incredibly apologetic, brought wine and dog treats, told us the steps she'd take and offered to pay vets bills. I felt much more forgiving!

I have a GSD and she is a dickhead the week before she comes into season. She rips things up, steals food, gets growly and snappy to other dogs, chases our cats, strolls upstairs when she feels like it, even though she has been trained not to, and she will purposely ignore her name being called. An absolute twat to live with during that time. I wonder if yours is coming into season? Mine was just over a year old for her first.

OK it all sounds very dramatic and frightening - but as others have said, dogs don't attack out of the blue for no reason. I think you are doing all the right things - vet check (dog may be harbouring an infection following the surgery which might have a bearing); muzzle and short lead in public; get onto a reputable trainer asap.

Meeting another dog unexpectedly around a corner head on - I've been on the receiving end of this with another dog lunging at mine (no damage done fortunately) and I put it down to the other dog being taken totally by surprise and reacting instinctively without thinking.

Do go and check on your neighbour and their dog and explain how bad you feel, and what steps you are taking.

And get another dog walker.

Bollocks did she ever have insurance. Wwhat a terrible dogwalker.

Please try to be calm, OP. She won't go for your kids. The dogwalker mismanaged the whole situation by the sounds of it

The “teenage” stage requires you to up the training to get through it with a well mannered dog. So barking at other dogs isn’t acceptable, so you need to have been teaching her not to do this, not just excusing it.
Look into trigger stacking. It sounds like she’s getting more and more stressed. So I’d walk in quieter places, if you see a dog and she starts to bark turn her around and put in distance, try and pass in wide spaces and don’t allow dogs to come within the space that sets her off- gradually reduce the space as she becomes calmer.

She was spayed two weeks ago, so hormones could still be settling and shes not had many proper long walks the past couple of weeks because of it.

Still waiting to hear from the other owner, going to wait until the morning before going back round as I don't want to make him feel harassed.

@MrsWinters

The “teenage” stage requires you to up the training to get through it with a well mannered dog. So barking at other dogs isn’t acceptable, so you need to have been teaching her not to do this, not just excusing it. Look into trigger stacking. It sounds like she’s getting more and more stressed. So I’d walk in quieter places, if you see a dog and she starts to bark turn her around and put in distance, try and pass in wide spaces and don’t allow dogs to come within the space that sets her off- gradually reduce the space as she becomes calmer.

I'll look at trigger stacking, thank you.

At the moment she only barks when starting to approach other dogs to say hello on a lead, so we've been removing her from the situation as soon as she seems to get into that headspace and getting her focus back on us. I figured it would be something we would discuss with the trainer along with the lead pulling as it's only an issue occasionally on the lead.

Some dogs can snap, seemingly out of no where. You need to be very careful that there is no escalation. I would be very concerned that your dog could suddenly turn on your children. She has proven herself to be unpredictable.

My BIL's dog started by attacking other dogs, then livestock (he has a farm), then attacked a dog walker. I wasn't aware of all of the attacks and my BIL downplayed the only incident I was aware of. I walked the dog, with my small dog, on a weekly basis and had known it since a puppy

The dog attacked me when I was heavily pregnant (one week before I gave birth). My leg is permanently scarred. The attack only stopped when my husband intervened. It could have been a lot worse. The dog was a big, powerful breed, similar to a GSD. Oh and rhe provocation for the attack was me daring to walk past said dog - at quite some distance.

@Lougle

Dogs Trust A dog walker is also identified as being responsible for it - whilst he/she is in charge of the dog. So, a dog walker has legal responsibilities and can also be held criminally liable under the Act.

She will not be criminally liable for a dog on dog attack.

Highly unlikely there is any crime committed unless the dog walker can be seen as negligent and if this is the first time the dog has attacked that will be extremely hard to prove.

OP as stated already you need a vet check, and a referrral to a qualified behaviourist from a recognised organisation with "proper MSC qualifiications"

You need to address her snatching food from the kids, that has the potential to turn very nasty.

You need a qualified behaviourist to assess the dog first OP before you can make any decisions about what to do next.

My advice for now would be not to walk her at all. Decompression is a really important stage for any dog that’s had a stressful situation like this one.

It sounds like she’s been trying to communicate for a while that she’s unhappy around other dogs and it hasn’t really been picked up on. Often with GSD they look comfortable to people but they really aren’t. Because she hasn’t been listened too (in her mind) and now has a change of routine due to the op which has probably elevated her stress levels she’s escalated the behaviour.
Is it also possible that being around dogs in the vets and associating it with negative experiences could have made things worse?

I would also try and find out exactly what happened to trigger the behaviour. Was she shocked by the dog on general, did it display some behaviour to her that she didn’t like or was it simply that she was too close?

I would also be concerned the dog managed to overpower the dog Walker firstly and secondly do it again, what does the dog wear for walks? Did she have it off lead?

It’s a terrible situation but honestly you will come through it. I had a dog like this years ago (GSD) and It was manageable but I never was able to trust it around other animals or children other than my own for the rest of its life! It never worries me about family though, probably was the most loyal dog I ever had in the home if that was any consolation.

The gent got back to us via a letter this evening, his dog needed emergency surgery today and whilst the other dog with him wasn't attacked she was hurt. He's not asked for money but obviously we intend to offer to pay for the costs caused by our dog and we'll deal with the walker afterwards. We're going to call the gent in the morning and ask him to clarify what happened at the end of the road, the first attack that we didn't see on our doorbell camera, and then try to find a way to make things right.

The police visited us as well and we have an action plan under the dangerous dogs act which is basically exactly what we planned to do (get a behaviourist, muzzle her and keep her on lead in future until a behaviourist believes that she's safe to be without a muzzle and/or lead).