Dog attacked another dog unprovoked

[Dogincident]

Just as the title says really. Our dog was out with our walker, had just left the house and was down the road when she attacked another dog as it came around the corner. Walker brought her back to the house and as she was unlocking the door the other owner walked past with the dog and she launched herself at them again. I got to the door as our walker got hold of her again and took her in and locked her away whilst our walker took off after the other owner to talk.

I'm horrified, everybody was shaken up, she's never done anything like this before and whilst she's started getting a little barky at other dogs when on the lead very recently, we were told (informally but by somebody well trained) that this is normal for teenage stage and to keep on with what we were doing and continue to socialise, no other even hint at aggression. The only thing I can think of is that she was spayed two weeks ago and this is the first time she's seen the walker since then, so she was extremely excited and jumping around so maybe she's hurt herself in the moment?!

We've informed the police, popped a note through the other owners door with our information and contacted our insurance. Our insurance is saying that they won't cover it third party because our walker had her at the time. So we let our walker know but our walkers insurance apparently expired last year and she forgot to renew it.

I'm now sat waiting for the other owner to get in touch (I didn't go speak to him at the time as I have two young children and our walker went, and frankly, I was completely and utterly confused by what was going on until the walker told me that my dog had attacked his and she was going over to talk to him). We knew that we had some training that needed addressing but nothing like this, more lead pulling, recall and snatching food from the kids type thing! The things that we didn't address well being novice owners and accidentally ending up with a 'Lockdown puppy' (so ended up unable to get classes until she was an older puppy). Ironic that we purposely waited until the first Lockdown ended to get a dog as we didn't want to be one of 'those' people but apparently we are.

We were already in the process of sorting a trainer to come visit and will see if they can come sooner now, but now I'm all unsettled and wondering what to do. We have two young kids, she's usually with us all day and hangs out with us in our living room but at this moment I don't feel comfortable doing that, she's our family pet and whilst I'm always aware that she could snap at the kids because she is a dog at the end of the day, I'm now actually worried about it because she was just a completely different dog and was properly going for the poor creature. We have a ring doorbell so I have watched the second attack back.

What do we do? She's a GSD so a big and strong dog who could easily cause damage, we're lucky that she didn't do worse to the poor other dog. We did our research, waited until Lockdown ended to put a deposit on a dog, sourced her from a lovely family home that we visited repeatedly and followed the sires very active social media and could see that they were from people who know what they are doing, took her to puppy training when space became available and tried to train her at home. And now I'm wondering if i can trust her with my kids.

Oh, and I have spent a fortune on training and behaviouralists and I am absolutely consistent with training my dog, but she is anxious, dog averse and now I have to walk her late at night and early in the morning to avoid running into other dogs.

Thanks all, just trying to read through. I'm reassured to hear about the dogs who are fine at home and dog averse, we can handle that and manage it with specialist support and well timed walks. We're committed to working out what is going on with our pup and getting her through it.

Feeling better about it all this morning, not okay obviously but we have a solid plan going forward and will do whatever we can to make it right with the owner. Our pet insurance wants to try claim and is saying that we can't offer anything but I need to talk to them and reiterate that I didn't see any of it and that's proved by our doorbell camera footage.

It sounds like you're handling it brilliantly @Dogincident

I hope you find a way through all this op, but can I just say I wish all dog owners were as responsible as you when their dogs react in this way. The amount of accounts I've read where the owner just takes their aggressive dog away and not say a word. I hope your neighbour and their dog are ok and this doesn't tarnish neighbourly relations.

Onwards and upwards, OP

ownd a large untrained animal

Dog-aggression can not always be trained out of dogs, particularly dogs that are bred for guarding. It's more a disposition for some and the most you can do is manage it e.g. walking them with a harness and muzzle, not letting them off-lead unless in a secure dog-free area.

Genetics overrule almost everything which is why it’s so important to understand and research the dog you are taking to live In your home.

It’s unfair to say it’s an untrained animal. Perhaps it is…but it could also be misunderstood, socialised in the wrong way (pet hate- socialisation is not exposing them to lots of things contrary to what most people think) in pain, genetically unsound or a million other things.
I’ve seen dogs showered with love and have the very best in socialisation and training that still show undesirable behaviour because that’s what they are programmed over years of selective breeding to do.
Training can’t change a personality.

Im glad your feeling better today Op.

I think people make the mistake of thinking they can socialise a guarding breed into a lab and you really can't. You can however find a way to live safely with them. But the dog will likely always need to be muzzled on walks and only let off in enclosed fields.

I have to be honest here, while there is no guarantee at all that a dog aggressive dog will hurt a person, I could not personally keep the dog after this.
I would be too anxious.

I have two dogs, one of mine is quite big though not GSD size and not comfortable around strange dogs she doesn’t know.
I no longer allow any interaction with other dogs and as a result she is now fine in that she’ll walk past and not really respond if one is nearby but she did once really ‘go’ for another dog when I had her off lead.
She had been interacting fine to multiple dogs the day before.
Trigger stacked I suppose.
There were no injuries at all and I do appreciate she was probably feeling very stressed and on edge and it was all ‘show’ but it took a long time for me to feel able to trust her around my kids again.
She is literally the sweetest, most tolerant child friendly dog I have ever known but she is big enough to kill a child and I just kept replaying the lunging, snarling, chasing image of her in my mind.
It was so at odds to her usual temperament.
Even my mum who is scared of dogs comments what a ‘kind and gentle soul’ she is
I seriously considered rehoming her for a few weeks so yeah, I completely empathise with your anxiety over her around the kids.

If you keep her I definitely would have her muzzled from now on forever and never let her interact with another gig again as she has shown she isn’t comfortable around other dogs and it isn’t just show and she is capable of inflicting injury.

I hope you're ok OP. What a horrible position to be in.
Nothing to add other than check home insurance. You may find you have liability cover although I'm not sure if it would cover with a third party walking the dog. Always worth a call.

Op you have had lots of advise from pp who sound knowledgeable and I too think you are acting really responsibly. It must be such a worrying time.

I just wanted to add that in your op you mentioned the dog stealing food from the children and as I read it seemed quite dismissive and perhaps have not addressed this as seriously as is needed. Maybe I'm wrong and read it wrong. However, this was the most worrying aspect of your post to me. This should have been nipped in the bud straight away and really a trainer should have been working on this sharpish. A dog stealing food from a child is a huge risk. Please do not allow the dog to interact with the dc other than in controlled circumstances eg you sat with the dog next to you.

Anyway, as pp mentioned many gsd are uncomfortable around dogs. I don't judge by breed but I have never met one that's not highly strung and at least bordering on dog aggressive. My sister has one, I do like her and do allow controlled interaction with my dog but id not trust her around my children or uncontrolled with my dog. I suppose its genetics like a pp said, they are a guarding breed and don't make particularly good family dogs imo. However, you can overcome this by using a behaviorist. Perhaps by finding her a job that will fully stimulate her intelligent brain and by accepting that she's not a dopey family lap dog like a lab.

Good luck.

I wrote about my dog-averse GSD outcross above. I also want to state very clearly that while I trust her implicitly with our kids who are older and can read her cues - but also listened and did what they were told with her from the beginning (unusual, I know…), I don’t allow friends with little kids to visit. Not because she’s ever done something, but because they don’t listen to me telling them that she’s not a big, fluffy teddy bear (she looks like one) and she hates being cuddled. (I wouldn’t blame her for snapping in a couple of particular cases, tbh…) Also, they carry food around at her face height.

This is solely your walker’s mess to clear up / pay for. Then bin her. She’s lying about the insurance expiring, she never had any.

See, my GSD is dog/cat/animal-aggressive, but not food-aggressive and he's absolutely a cuddly bear.

You can take his bowl away while he's eating from it and he won't do anything. He has hooves and ears that he chews on in the front room, you can simply go and take it off him if you want and he won't care.

And he's such a cuddler, he will come and lay on your lap (even though he's huge). He would happily nap with a child or an adult laying on him.

You can put your hand in his mouth and touch him anywhere you want, he's completely relaxed and unphased.

It truly is just dogs. And even when he's barking and going mad at the window, he still isn't aggressive to people, so you can go up and grab his collar and drag him away from the window and he won't react to you.

@Rewritethestars1

Op you have had lots of advise from pp who sound knowledgeable and I too think you are acting really responsibly. It must be such a worrying time.

I just wanted to add that in your op you mentioned the dog stealing food from the children and as I read it seemed quite dismissive and perhaps have not addressed this as seriously as is needed. Maybe I'm wrong and read it wrong. However, this was the most worrying aspect of your post to me. This should have been nipped in the bud straight away and really a trainer should have been working on this sharpish. A dog stealing food from a child is a huge risk. Please do not allow the dog to interact with the dc other than in controlled circumstances eg you sat with the dog next to you.

Anyway, as pp mentioned many gsd are uncomfortable around dogs. I don't judge by breed but I have never met one that's not highly strung and at least bordering on dog aggressive. My sister has one, I do like her and do allow controlled interaction with my dog but id not trust her around my children or uncontrolled with my dog. I suppose its genetics like a pp said, they are a guarding breed and don't make particularly good family dogs imo. However, you can overcome this by using a behaviorist. Perhaps by finding her a job that will fully stimulate her intelligent brain and by accepting that she's not a dopey family lap dog like a lab.

Good luck.

Labradors are responsible for the highest number of canine attack injury claims 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is solely your walker’s mess to clear up / pay for. Then bin her. She’s lying about the insurance expiring, she never had any
I also agree with this and wonder how necessary a walker actually is for your dog?

It’s always a risk entrusting another person with your pet after all, you don’t know if they are behaving as you’d want or being entirely truthful with you etc

Labradors are responsible for the highest number of canine attack injury claims
Some would say this is because they are exceptionally popular so the sheer number means there will be more incidents.

I’ve also heard it claimed by some that that they are more likely to be owned by more responsible people who insure than so called ‘macho’ breeds eg bull breeds, GSDs etc.

I must say, like a PP, I have rarely, if ever come across an adult GSD that wasn’t high strung and at best, bordering on dog aggressive.

@WetRainbowRoses

Labradors are responsible for the highest number of canine attack injury claims Some would say this is because they are exceptionally popular so the sheer number means there will be more incidents.

I’ve also heard it claimed by some that that they are more likely to be owned by more responsible people who insure than so called ‘macho’ breeds eg bull breeds, GSDs etc.

I must say, like a PP, I have rarely, if ever come across an adult GSD that wasn’t high strung and at best, bordering on dog aggressive.

I would agree with this. My lad was attacked by two GSDs and my dachshund was chased by one on the beach.

I wouldn't let a dog who attacked another dog with such ferocity anywhere near my kids. Accident waiting to happen.

My first reaction on reading your post was why wasn't your dog muzzled then google informed me that in the UK that isn't the law as it is where I am.

I think this thread has shown you that it would be a good idea for now on. All of the GSDs I see here out and about are muzzled and they all seem happy enough. It seems to me that it is a small thing you can do to make sure everyone is safe when you are out with her.

I have seen some lovely, well-behaved GSD and GSD-mixes walking on-lead, unmuzzled, down busy main roads in London, not reacting to dogs. So, it's not a given that GSDs need to be muzzled, but if you notice any dog aggression at all (barking out the window at then, or pulling at leads and barking) then you need to start muzzling.

I think the breed has changed over the years, perhaps? We had GSDs when I was a child and they were without exception adorable. I was 2 years old when I crawled into a hedgerow. Mum couldn't get me out, but the GSD came in after me and got me out. My sister hit him over the head with a broomstick (accidentally, she was very young) and he just gently grabbed the back of her nappy and sat her down. We had 4 pure GSDs in all, over a period of 25 years.

I don't recognise the description of them I read on here, and the shape of the ones in crufts is awful, too.

My sister hit him over the head with a broomstick (accidentally, she was very young)

Mine would just look at you with that affronted, confused, what just happened and why, did I do something wrong? type of look. It's quite cute when he does those looks because he has little tan "eyebrows", he is very expressive. You can really tell when he misses someone when they leave, he looks so sad.

My puppy has been growled at and lunged at by two different GSDs this week. I also remember them as benign dogs from my childhood. Odd.

We have had two GSDs. Both had a strong dislike for small dogs with curled tails.
The food snatching would really worry me.
It sounds to me like your GSD dog has way too much freedom. These dogs are smart and strong and you have to be very clear and consistent about their place and roll.

For now all food in your house should be consumed at the table, no wandering around eating for the humans. Before eating the dog should be restrained. Pick a nice spot, attach a lead to it (a radiator or some such) and he must stay there when you eat. Name the spot and have a command - eg “go to bed” Every time .
There should be a strong rhythm to his day including times when he is expected to “go to bed”, and stay put. He will be well able to have that level of self discipline.
Train him for tricks and fun. Do it a few times durning the day.
I would worry about him with the children. You need to take her in hand with the utmost urgency.

I've got to agree with the posters who are saying they've never once met a GSD that wasn't dog reactive, sadly.

I don't think they're really meant as pets - they're working animals and most homes don't have the time or knowledge to handle them.