Dog attacked another dog unprovoked

[Dogincident]

Just as the title says really. Our dog was out with our walker, had just left the house and was down the road when she attacked another dog as it came around the corner. Walker brought her back to the house and as she was unlocking the door the other owner walked past with the dog and she launched herself at them again. I got to the door as our walker got hold of her again and took her in and locked her away whilst our walker took off after the other owner to talk.

I'm horrified, everybody was shaken up, she's never done anything like this before and whilst she's started getting a little barky at other dogs when on the lead very recently, we were told (informally but by somebody well trained) that this is normal for teenage stage and to keep on with what we were doing and continue to socialise, no other even hint at aggression. The only thing I can think of is that she was spayed two weeks ago and this is the first time she's seen the walker since then, so she was extremely excited and jumping around so maybe she's hurt herself in the moment?!

We've informed the police, popped a note through the other owners door with our information and contacted our insurance. Our insurance is saying that they won't cover it third party because our walker had her at the time. So we let our walker know but our walkers insurance apparently expired last year and she forgot to renew it.

I'm now sat waiting for the other owner to get in touch (I didn't go speak to him at the time as I have two young children and our walker went, and frankly, I was completely and utterly confused by what was going on until the walker told me that my dog had attacked his and she was going over to talk to him). We knew that we had some training that needed addressing but nothing like this, more lead pulling, recall and snatching food from the kids type thing! The things that we didn't address well being novice owners and accidentally ending up with a 'Lockdown puppy' (so ended up unable to get classes until she was an older puppy). Ironic that we purposely waited until the first Lockdown ended to get a dog as we didn't want to be one of 'those' people but apparently we are.

We were already in the process of sorting a trainer to come visit and will see if they can come sooner now, but now I'm all unsettled and wondering what to do. We have two young kids, she's usually with us all day and hangs out with us in our living room but at this moment I don't feel comfortable doing that, she's our family pet and whilst I'm always aware that she could snap at the kids because she is a dog at the end of the day, I'm now actually worried about it because she was just a completely different dog and was properly going for the poor creature. We have a ring doorbell so I have watched the second attack back.

What do we do? She's a GSD so a big and strong dog who could easily cause damage, we're lucky that she didn't do worse to the poor other dog. We did our research, waited until Lockdown ended to put a deposit on a dog, sourced her from a lovely family home that we visited repeatedly and followed the sires very active social media and could see that they were from people who know what they are doing, took her to puppy training when space became available and tried to train her at home. And now I'm wondering if i can trust her with my kids.

Gosh, how horrible

I hope your walker is shitting themselves right now - they have been so irresponsible and you should be able to claim your costs back from them.

As they were in charge of the dog at the time, this is legally their responsibility and they should be require to pay the bills.

Have you spoken to her since the incident?

I'm sorry you're going through this OP but it sounds like you're dealing with it in the best way possible.

I think that muzzles should be much more frequently used and I definitely have changed my perception of them since starting dog sports, where they are common. They are just another piece of kit like a harness or collar to keep your dog safe and under control and protect everyone, they're not a red flag of a dangerous dog.

If she was only spayed 2 weeks ago, she could still be in a bit of pain so I'd get her to the vet asap. She may have felt confronted by the other dog and reacted, but please don't allow her out again with this dog walker. There's no excuse for having no insurance, and I'd make sure that her other clients are aware too... spread the word locally.

You've had a warning and it sounds like you're doing all the right things.

She's booked into the vet in the morning, they're aware of what happened and are happy to check her over. We're going to ask them for a recommendation of a behaviourist and start muzzle training her as soon as it arrives tomorrow.

She won't go near the walker again I can assure you. I'm really upset and angry that she doesn't have insurance, we were under the impression that she did and would never have used her had we known. We're struggling financially as I had to give up my work at the end of last year and trying to get this cost from her is the last thing we need but I don't feel like we can not offer to pay as she is our dog.

The last we heard from her she said that she is sure that the other dog didn't have the injury from the first attack and it was the second one, which I saw some of, that caused the injury. I'll need to check this with the gent tomorrow as she's aware that our insurance has a clause about it somebody else is being paid to care for our dog then it's not covered and I suspect she's hoping that we can push that with our insurance.

I should clarify in that I think she'll want us to try say that as I was standing there for some of it then I was in charge of our dog at the time, except the footage does make it clear that I appear as she manages to grab our dog.

I don't think that walker would pay, and I don't feel like we can just say "Well ask her for the money." and walk away, especially as it's a neighbour and we've only just started settling in to the community here.

I would be keeping track of every single penny you pay to the injured dog(s) and the owner, and chasing the walker for it.

She has been so irresponsible and you are absolutely right to be furious. I'm a dog walker myself and it really pisses me off that people like her are allowed to run businesses with no insurance or experience as it's always the dogs that suffer for it

Apologies for the mini rant! I hope you're as okay as can be - be kind to yourself (and to ddog as she'll be quite fired up I imagine).

I would, when you've calmed down, leave a review on the dog walkers' social media to make other owners aware that she's operating uninsured and that she's left you with a huge vet bill as a result.

You sound like a lovely, responsible and caring owner and have done everything textbook since the attack. Agree you'll have to pay the vet bill and pursue the dogwalker separately. Do you have any legal advice with any of your insurances? Just wondering if the involvement of the dogwalker (who you may need to sue) means there's things you should and shouldn't say (regarding your liability) to the gent when you arrange to pay the bill.

I think that's what we'll have to do re getting the costs back, I'd rather do it that way than leave the poor gent trying to do it.

Unfortunately she's not got any social media, her business is all via word of mouth from what I can tell. She's not inexperienced either, been at it for years so I was really shocked by the lack of insurance, especially as she said shes claimed on it previously so I do think that there could be some truth in forgetting to pay due to pandemic but bloody hell it's a huge thing and a huge amount of time to have passed without checking.

@Tarnation

You sound like a lovely, responsible and caring owner and have done everything textbook since the attack. Agree you'll have to pay the vet bill and pursue the dogwalker separately. Do you have any legal advice with any of your insurances? Just wondering if the involvement of the dogwalker (who you may need to sue) means there's things you should and shouldn't say (regarding your liability) to the gent when you arrange to pay the bill.

Oh that's a fair point, I think our house insurance has it. Will check that in the morning, thanks!

Speak with your insurance, they may take in responsibility for going after the dog walker for costs on your behalf.
A letter from their legal will probably have much more impact than you going to her direct

I wonder if the previous claims pushed her premiums up a lot so she decided not to bother renewing?

I really don't believe she forgot

Hello. I have a rescue GSD and a 6 month old working line GSD. @Leonberger and @PollyRoulllson both gave superb advice on this subject in the past and @Leonberger has good points in their reply above.
Where I live GSD are a listed breed so have to be muzzled and on lead always. I have insured mine for personal damage in case of your scenario. I hope it helps you but I often think my boy, whilst very sweet could easily be reactive- partially because they are so strong and are not really 'doggy' dogs. I imagine it was a surprise meet and fight or flight followed.
In my case I'm still slowly getting mine used to other dogs and just accept that as a breed they are not great with other dogs often. You are probably very upset now but this will pass and you sound lovely. Dont worry. Do get a behaviourist in though to check.

Look I don’t usually say anything negative or unhelpful of I can help it
But all I’ll say is

IF YOU ARE THINKING OF GETTING A DOG THIS ENTIRE STORY IS A GUIDE ON WHAT NOT TO DO

@Yellowsubhubabubbub

Look I don’t usually say anything negative or unhelpful of I can help it But all I’ll say is

IF YOU ARE THINKING OF GETTING A DOG THIS ENTIRE STORY IS A GUIDE ON WHAT NOT TO DO

But you can help it, and you still decided to be negative and unhelpful to the OP. Why?

@ThisisMax
It’s not for the OP. The OP already knows they’ve fucked up and are going to have to try and palm this dog off on some other hapless person
It’s as I said : it’s for anyone thinking of buying a dog- this is a warning

If it’s practical advice you’re after ( but I don’t think that it is,really) this dog needs a yellow jacket or lead to make dog owners aware that she is not to be approached- and yes, this can start from an op or an injury.

[quote Yellowsubhubabubbub]@ThisisMax
It’s not for the OP. The OP already knows they’ve fucked up and are going to have to try and palm this dog off on some other hapless person
It’s as I said : it’s for anyone thinking of buying a dog- this is a warning

If it’s practical advice you’re after ( but I don’t think that it is,really) this dog needs a yellow jacket or lead to make dog owners aware that she is not to be approached- and yes, this can start from an op or an injury.[/quote]
Dont be silly. The OP didn't mess up. They did their best. Its perfectly possible to have a dog that does not mix well as long as you build that into your routine. Unfortunately she knows now the dog is potentially reactive. Your comments are a bit strange/passive agressive/unhelpful.

@Yellowsubhubabubbub

Look I don’t usually say anything negative or unhelpful of I can help it But all I’ll say is

IF YOU ARE THINKING OF GETTING A DOG THIS ENTIRE STORY IS A GUIDE ON WHAT NOT TO DO

What a nasty and unnecessary comment.

OP hasn't fucked up at all. She wasn't even in charge of the dog when the incident occurred - she trusted her dog walker and her dog walker had lied to her. How is that OP's fault?

And you could help yourself. You could have just stepped away from the thread and not written anything!

OP, you've handled it so, so, well.
My dog got attacked by a GSD yesterday and I had no choice but to use my k917 spray on the dog (harmless, safe, NOT pepper spray, totally works, used by police and posties). The owner chased me with a log and threatened to kill me and my child. That was pretty awful.

GSDs are a tough, tough breed. Beautiful breed but they're certainly not a cakewalk. You'll really have your work cut out for you. Definitely muzzle your dog because I don't think this will be a one-off. Lots of work ahead but you sound very dedicated and incredibly responsible. Your dog is lucky to have such an owner as you.

Hope the other dog's ok. It sounds like it was a brutal attack.

I’ve got too much experience of reactive GSDs sadly @ThisisMax
I used to foster for GSD rescue (pre tiny DC!) and have had my fair share of messed up dogs.

I tend to find they are a one person breed.
I wouldn’t allow a walker to walk one of mine because I don’t believe they would pick up on the tiny ques they do give out. People think they are overly reactive but actually it’s just the owners have missed what the dog was saying until it’s too late.
They aren’t designed to love every human and dog and that’s okay but I wish sometimes people would understand the breeds they are taking (I don’t mean you OP obviously I don’t know your circumstances!)
For a loyal family friendly dog you can’t get better IMO but if you want a dog that loves everyone and everything run far away from this breed.

Socialisation wise I think the worst thing you can do is stick them with other dogs and hope for the best. One negative experience can send them reactive for life, a Labrador would probably shrug off being bullied by another boisterous dog for example or being told off by another grumpy dog but a GSD will store and remember that one bad thing for what feels like forever. Eventually over time all of these little annoyances normal breeds would shrug off build up to the point of an explosion which it sounds like has happened here.

It sounds like it was a bad attack OP but you can manage this, if you want too. A good positive professional trainer could help you. Make sure they are registered and don’t use any form of dominance or prong collars etc. Bullying her won’t help. It will take a full change of routine though, only being handled by yourself would be a start because you have no clue what someone else is teaching her. I would also walk her in quiet areas until she learns dogs aren’t a threat, you need be her advocate here and show her you’ve got this and you don’t need her to step in at all.
I would also look at her excersise and mental stimulation amounts. Is she honestly getting enough. They are designed to run all day and a stroll around the block won’t cut it. Do you do any training or anything like that with her?
I would always muzzle her in future, it’s not worth the risk once she’s escalated to this point.

I hope you feel a bit better this morning

Thats a great post from @Leonberger - I agree, in my limited experience of GSD they are tough but also hugely sensitive often in very subtle ways- so they can be easy to send over threshold without any signs. I think they are a one person dog and they need to trust you implicitly. I have started doing scentwork with my guy and it is superb as he ignores all else and it exhausts him. Im in the country and can walk a lot but he never tires but scenting does the trick. I hope today is better.

GSDs are a tough breed if you aren't used to them. A lot of them are very reactive and they generally don't like other dogs. It doesn't mean your dog is going to turn on your kids but you're doing the right thing having a behaviourist come and give an opinion.

I have a dog that would attack other dogd if given the chance. He only likes people, not other dogs or cats.

He has to be walked with a muzzle and a strong harness, and can only be off-lead in a rented out field.

He was socialised as a puppy, did have a few dog friends he liked. It's very much like he is fine with a dog where we know the owner and are friends, and where the dog is invited in etc, but hates dogs he doesn't know on the street.

Every time he sees a dog out the window he aggressively barks and goes hyper like he wants to run out and get them.

Sorry OP but you might end up having to walk with a muzzle.

And yes... He's a GSD. Absolutely loves people and children and has never been aggressive to anything but other animals.

I don't think @Yellowsubhubabubbub's comment was nasty really.

The thread is basically a cautionary tale, the op ownd a large untrained animal and it is now injuring other people's dogs.

The op is being more responsible now, but some damage has already been done.

@Dogincident - I have a Shiloh Shepherd (GSD outcross). They’re supposed to be absolutely bombproof, as they were bred to be assistance dogs. She was ok until about this age too, then it was like a switch was turned on. She became defensively aggressive towards other dogs. I wouldn’t be surprised if your dog has been attacked by another while being walked by your walker and it wasn’t reported to you. My dog is fine with people, but woe betide all the white, fluffy “don’t worry he’s friendly” off-lead “oodles” that have no recall, and idiot owners miles away from their food dogs that insist on jumping up in her face.