New border collie pup worries

[mumnosbest]

We've had our pup just 4 days and I'm already just like a new mum, worrying about her. We searched for ages but prices have sky-rocketed so ended up going with a local man not a registered breeder. I'm now worried about how little I actually know about where she has come from.

She's 9 weeks old but seems so tiny. My kitchen scales say she's just under 3oz (not sure if they're very accurate). I have her vets card. She's had both sets of jabs and been wormed and flead according to her card. The first 2 days she was fine, very sleepy but playful in between. Yesterday she had very loose poos and brought up bile but I put it down to her pinching the cat's food (I've moved it now) and eating grass. Today she had diarrhea again and been sick. She has slept most of the day. She has been awake for short intervals but has mostly just wanted to cuddle rather than play. She has barely eaten since she arrived but is drinking and weeing plenty.

I am calling the vets first thing to get her checked over. Does this all sound normal and just stress related? Or should I be really worried?
Thanks!

It’s lovely to hear that your pup sounds better @mumnosbest but do make sure you get a good insurance policy as this little pup could potentially end up being a money pit bless her

@mumnosbest
Legally your pup must be 8 weeks old and microchipped to be sold on.

Is she chipped?

She must also be sold direct from the breeder, did you see her littermates and mum? Were they all together?

Report to your local council reading standards and the RSPCA as a breech of Lucy's law if any of the above are an issue

*trading standards

Awww bless her little self, am glad she's feeling a bit better. I suspect in a few weeks when she's a typical bouncing puppy you will surprised how quickly she can catch up! Whatever her start at least she seems to have landed on her paws with you.

@mumnosbest

This is her next to a pack of playing cards. Does she look about the right size for a 9 week old. My scales could be wrong. I've also attached a photo of her vets card.

A genuine vacc certificate is provided by the vet who did it, properly printed with their name, address, contact number of their practice. The vaccinations should be dated and signed by the vet. That puppy looks a lot younger than 9 weeks; which is another reason I suspect a fake vax cert.

You can check it by phoning the vet oractice who supposedly gave it and ask them to check if they did.

In any case, that puppy can't be taken out for walks in public or meet other dogs for several months yet.

Thanks for the update, sounds positive.
A worm infestation in a small puppy can make them very poorly, but is easily cleared up with the correct meds and fluids.

Reporting would be Councils licensing department, trading standards, potentially RSPCA.

www.cariadcampaign.co.uk/report/

I would also report him to the HMRC

My pup was in the same sorry state. Be warned, if she has a really bad infestation of worms she may throw them up as well as pass them in her poo. Not a nice find!

She was sold as chipped but like so many things, the number was not genuine. I did see her with mum and siblings, although only videos and a video call due to covid.
2bazookers why several months before she can be walked? Obviously we need to start over with vaccinations once she's well and training but several months?

Thanks for the warning LST my one and only phobia is worms so this has been tough on so many levels. Thankfully I have a very brave 9yr old DD. How is your pup now. Did she/he recover well? Thanks!

You don't need to wait several months!

Normally it's a week or so after her final vaccinations, so you're maybe looking at six weeks as she'll need to be fit/healthy before she gets her first dose.

Thanks sunflowers and buttercups that was my understanding too.

Socialisation is immediately after the second vaccine but the vet won’t vaccinate her until she’s well so yes, a fair few weeks.

While you can’t take her out and about I’d immediately start desensitising her to noises OP, especially as she is a collie which can be noise sensitive anyway.
CD of common but potentially scary sounds like fireworks, cars starting up, rubbish trucks, kids shouting etc.
Very low volume paired with delicious, high value treats and gradually increase the volume.

I’d take her out in the garden too and on car rides.

Normally I’d say to take her out and about before the vaccines are finished, carrying her in your arms and not letting her on the floor so she can experience lots of different things like bus/train rides, crowds of people etc but as she’s so poorly it’s probably safer not to.

@mumnosbest

She was sold as chipped but like so many things, the number was not genuine. I did see her with mum and siblings, although only videos and a video call due to covid. 2bazookers why several months before she can be walked? Obviously we need to start over with vaccinations once she's well and training but several months?

Because until a puppy has received a full cource of the right number of genuine vaccines properly spaces out, it needs to be kept well away from new dogs so that it won't pick up diseases from them. Then AFTER the 've had all the shots, it takes several more weeks for their immune system to create enough antibodies for protection. Your vet says she has to start afresh That won't be until her other health problems are sorted out .

You have a sick undersized puppy who is going to need a lot of care.  You say you're going back to work; hope there's going to be  responsible at home all the time with the new pup.  Collies (I've had several) are wonderful dogs, but demanding. very clever very active and hugely energetic.  So they need training , company,  stimulation and A LOT of excercise   A bored  lonely collie can become a neurotic nightmare

My goodness. She’s tiny.
Appalling breeders are breeding dogs back to back to take advantage of current puppy fad.

Responsible breeders are not breeding at all as the likelihood of a whim puppy is just too great.

There is a lot of talk about the puppy fallout that will be happening when people go back to work and pup gets severe separation anxiety.

It is predicted that rescue centres will be overflowing.

You have a sick undersized puppy who is going to need a lot of care. You say you're going back to work; hope there's going to be responsible at home all the time with the new pup. Collies (I've had several) are wonderful dogs, but demanding. very clever very active and hugely energetic. So they need training , company, stimulation and A LOT of excercise A bored lonely collie can become a neurotic nightmare

This in spades.
Border collies are a working breed that need work, physical and mental to keep them happy.

They are good for extremely dedicated dog owners who have high exercise needs themselves, flyball fanatics &c
But they are a far from ideal pet for most families.

A farmer I know bred a litter of Australian Kelpies to be workers, and refused even her relatives a pup if they weren’t going to work it.
2,000 acres and sheep.. good idea.
Otherwise not.

We had a rescue Lurcher pup from RSPCA who was 12 weeks old and very poorly.
Vet advised carrying her in our arms to get her used to as many sounds and sights as possible .

It worked and she was fearless even if the loudest fireworks displays that used to happen beside our house.

Carrying them keeps them safe until their second vaccine has taken effect, from nasties like parvovirus and hepatitis.

She looks small enough to carry in your arms for weeks at least!

@mumnosbest

She was the smallest, scruffiest pup. she is still happy to walk outside and climb up and over the doorstep for a wee. She's walking fine so not that lethargic. Maybe she was just over excited the first two days and has calmed down.

She hasn't been sick for a few hours now. She has quite a big tummy but it's soft and she doesn't mind you touching it. I can feel her ribs though. Is that normal?

Worms...

Fat pot bellied look often means a large roundworm burden.

She could have tapeworm too.

Especially if fleas in the greeders environment

Because until a puppy has received a full cource of the right number of genuine vaccines properly spaces out, it needs to be kept well away from new dogs so that it won't pick up diseases from them. Then AFTER the 've had all the shots, it takes several more weeks for their immune system to create enough antibodies for protection

I've no idea where you got your vet degree from but this information isn't entirely accurate.

Yes in general a pup should be healthy before being vaccinated.
But once they're 8 weeks old they can have their initial vaccine. Depending on the brand, the second vacc is given 2-4 weeks after that, and immunity is usually well established a week after the second vacc.
So 5 weeks max in a puppy with no clinical signs.

If the pup has only has verminous enteritis, she should pick up pretty quickly with treatment so likely 6-7 weeks or less for full vaccs. Not months and months.

Regardless what us essential us that she's properly socialised to a whole range of other experiences in the meantime, I'd also recommend that she spends time with healthy vaccinated dogs in a safe secure location once she's feeling better. Socialisation is incredibly important.
This checklist is helpful

drsophiayin.com/app/uploads/2015/12/Socialization_Checklist.pdf

Is someone going to be at home with her??
I can't believe people are still buying puppies from backyard breeders in 2021. Grim.

@CodenameVillanelle

Is someone going to be at home with her?? I can't believe people are still buying puppies from backyard breeders in 2021. Grim.

It is depressing. People think they are “Rescuing” Them, but if you want a rescue dog, go to a bona fide rescue centre with backup.

It ought to be illegal to advertise pups online.
These ads put the impulse buyer in touch with puppy farmer.

The ones who suffer are the bitches.
It is heartbreaking.

Hope Oreo is doing ok

@mumnosbest

I've just had a proper look at that vacc card - I think it's it's def faked.
Bordatella bronchoseptica is tucked, but it isn't one of the vaccines given. Was it signed? Is the vet practice info on it?

What were the videos of the mum and pups like? Were they at home with toys and a decent sized litter? How did you do the handover?

I think you know you've been ripped off but please report this. It's likely the poor bitch will be used as a money making machine if this man isn't stopped

I've just had a proper look at that vacc card - I think it's it's def faked.

And the sticker for the first vaccination is stuck over the top of the second.

Kennel cough Vaccine didn’t think was given to very young pups?
( As @Veterinari said)

A type of dog I love had the aficionados of that breed horrified as to what is going on in this pandemic.
Fake pedigrees, dogs not being what they are supposed to be...

I saw a beautiful little Lurcher, Irish marked, broken coated, 16 weeks...

Sold as a poodle retriever cross.

She was pure Lurcher.. delightful but not what he thought he bought for ££££
He didn’t see the mother interacting with her pups
Just a picture of a dog in its own😕