Why are there so many wankers on this board?

[Ocre373]

They’re on every thread. I’ve never known a board like it. People come on asking for advice and you can guarantee within a couple of replies someone will jump on something in the OP, often something completely irrelevant to what is being asked. They’re judgemental, condescending, rude and often just plain nasty.

It’s happened to me time and time again and it’s stopped me asking for advice which is such a shame because there’s so many people on here with so much knowledge and experience.

It’s made this a horrible place to be.

Funny that you claim some people are hostile when on a thread that claims those of us who believe welfare should be paramount
Said enough about that upthread and won’t repeat aside to say it’s a rather hypocritical statement.

and dogs shouldn’t be exploited for monetary gain
Pretty much all modern day dogs are exploited for monetary gain, dogs are generally not given away for free.
There is almost always ‘monetary gain’ from their sale.
Dogs now are bred as pets and before that, and in some circles now too, as working animals, both purely to benefit humans.
I don’t deny that most people absolutely adore their dogs and take very good care of them but pets are exploitation.
What else could you call choosing to breed animals purely for the benefit of people?

That website is awful. People looking to stud their pet out for cash and others breeding two unhealth tested pets for cash. And then there are the multitude of puppy farmers
In addition to commercial puppy farmers that website also includes council pounds, independent rescue centres, ‘Kennel club registered’ show breeders who breed infrequently/have contracts/health test etc etc, ‘Kennel Club registered’ breeders who are terrible and don’t give a shit for the well-being of their animals, hobby breeders Who are well meaning but ignorant, hobby breeders who are really fantastic and research lines/health test/socialise/have contracts etc etc and hobby breeders who are terrible and don’t give a shit for their welfare of their animals.

You often talk about breed clubs but just like pets4homes there will be dreadful breeders within the breed club, ditto on the Kennel Club puppy finder tool.

Wolfiefan - stay on your rose tinted principal island and I hope that you never need to leave it. Because when you do, you will find out that the world actually gives a shit about principals. Here is the only thing I ever learned from my dad (as he was a wanker in his own right): You can't eat PRINCIPLES.

Pets4Homes isn't a brilliant site, but you can't deny a lot of people interested in purchasing a dog will be looking there.

My issue is the attitude breeders have with the site. If you are truly interested in stopping people buying from 'wrong' breeders then they need to advertise here as well. A lot of people will be scared to ask innocent questions like how much a puppy will cost when approaching breeders.

Stop with the superior attitude and make yourself approachable and advertise, so called responsible breeders need to accept that people use these sites.

I have a pedigree dog from a breed with few typical health issues.

I spent a year choosing the breeder, consulted the breed club. Visited, asked all the questions, saw her dogs, contacted other people who'd had puppies from her. Checked health tests. Waited on a list.

A few years on and I love the dog like no other but it should not be this hard to keep an animal healthy. Almost every month something new...

Mouth problems, ear problems, skin rashes, eye problems, dry skin, hair loss, skin reactions. So far we have spent around £10,000 on vet bills. Plus more on various high quality foods and so on. This is the sixth dog we've had and almost all others have been mixed breed dogs from go knows where (rescues). All have been healthy and long lived. All bar one which was also a pedigree and lived to six years old before seizures killed him.

It will be a cold day in health before I pay for another pedigree dog. I no longer believe experienced breeders are capable of producing a properly sound animal. The closed gene pools are cauing so much misery, even in dogs bred by the "good" people.

It will be a cold day in health before I pay for another pedigree dog. I no longer believe experienced breeders are capable of producing a properly sound animal. The closed gene pools are cauing so much misery, even in dogs bred by the "good" people.*

This of course depends on the type of dog. You admit yourself that you went for a dog known to have health problems. I'm assuming a French bulldog or similar.

You can’t eat principles?
But I would rather earn my money without making animals suffer.
Frosted the KC isn’t what many people assume it is. People think if they find a KC registered breeder then that’s great. Unfortunately it isn’t. The awful case of the breeder in Farnborough should make that clear for anyone. (Siblings bred, she then wanted vet to euthanise seemingly healthy pups. When the vet refused she tried to to it herself. I’ll spare you the details.)
So I will continue to be highly wary if I ever look for another puppy. It’s the very opposite of looking at things in a rose tinted way. I know just how rubbish many breeders are.

You admit yourself that you went for a dog known to have health problems. I'm assuming a French bulldog or similar.

No I didn't. I went for a breed with few (i.e. not many) typyical health issues. Nothing like a frenchie.

Frosted the KC isn’t what many people assume it is. People think if they find a KC registered breeder then that’s great Unfortunately it isn’t. The awful case of the breeder in Farnborough should make that clear for anyone. (Siblings bred, she then wanted vet to euthanise seemingly healthy pups. When the vet refused she tried to to it herself. I’ll spare you the details.)
Ah, you don’t have to tell me this, I can’t stand the Kennel Club!
I bang on about how shit they are all the time!
Farnborough, is that the border collies who were put in the freezer or am I thinking of a different case?

Oh it was. And they didn’t automatically take the name of the breeder off their lists.
It’s a huge organisation and people really do think that having KC reg is a mark of excellence. It really isn’t. But it could be. It could work to help deal with puppy farmers and health issues with pedigrees. But it doesn’t.
I wish I knew what the answer was.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman It's also worth remembering that 'ethical' is a sliding scale from 'vaguely trying' to 'totally saintly', that everyone makes mistakes, and what is 'ethical best practice' to one person is completely irrelevant to another.

Absolutely. Our moral standpoint also varies from one person to the next. You might personally be more interested in if a shop is paying their staff a living a wage and having permanent contract with fixed number of hours each week. I might be more interested in how a shop is looking to keep their supply chain sustainable for the environment. Ideally, they’d do both but some shops don’t have capacity to do both. So we pick what matters most to us. Picking a breeder is the same. We pick those values that are important to us and there might be things a breeder could improve on but it doesn’t mean they’re a bad breeder.

Wolfie - That website is awful. That is the primary website people will go to when they are buying a dog for the first time. If you only have bad breeders on there, you grow the puppy farm market because people assume that is the norm. If good breeders are on there, people can do research. They will see the variety in prices, see that some adverts are multiple pictures of the puppies all with the bitch, the dogs are health tested, they are a council assured breeder. Then there will be adverts that have one blurry photo of puppies (or one puppy) with no bitch in sight, no mention of health testing. By having a site like that with good and bad breeders on, novice dog owners can start to recognise good breeders from bad. Then if people are still confused, which doesn’t mean they aren’t prepared for a dog it just means they are taking this seriously, they can ask a question about what ideally a breeder should have taking into account that ethical is a sliding scale. Instead they are shut down with ‘that’s an awful website’ and no help to find another breeder.

@CakeAndGin completely agree about 'that' website. Like it or not, it's where people will most likely go to first. Even if breeders aren't advertising current litters, but instead just have a presence, then that's better than being obscure and hard to find.

Sorry I misread your post but there are still breeds out there with large and varied gene pools. Sounds like you had a dose of bad luck though which could happen with any animal.

Funny that you claim some people are hostile when on a thread that claims those of us who believe welfare should be paramount and dogs shouldn’t be exploited for monetary gain are “wankers”.

No. You claim they are wankers, unless you bought off them. Your breeder made a profit.

No one thinks welfare should be an after thought.

You, however, are huge hypocrite. Your facts are usually wrong and berate posters, for doing exactly what you did.

You seem almost brainwashed. You can't see that your breedee is exactly the same as many other. And worse than some. Better than others.

People looking to stud their pet out for cash

Your breeders stud dog was free? Your breeder didn't pay anything at all?

Actually she didn’t pay this time. She sought out the lines she wanted, bought a pup and years later she used him as a stud. Once.

And there’s a massive difference between people agreeing to allow their dog to be a stud when the bitch is right and the health tests etc are all done and the pedigrees work together. And advertising online to stud out a male pet for no good reason other than cash.
Cake people who go to that website generally want the colour of pup they want, without travelling too far or waiting too long. They don’t want to think about welfare.

People who advertise and stud their dog can still be selective as to who they provide the services to. It can't have been the loveliest life for him to have an entire Male and bitches but rarely breed. He'd need segregated from the pack a lot.

Actually she didn’t pay this time. She sought out the lines she wanted, bought a pup and years later she used him as a stud. Once.

She bought a stud dog and used him once? Of course she did.

Do you realise that a breeder owning both larents is often considered a warning sign that they over breed?

Many breeders own both parents and breed often but don't register all litters. So on paper they have only had 1 or 2 litters.

Your breeder bought a male dog, with the intention of making money out of him as a stud dog? (Not I don't think this is wrong but it goes against what you normally say)

You are completely clueless. And tbh the more you bang on about your breeder, the worse they sound.

You can advertise a stud dog. And if someone comes to you with a unhelafh tested female, you can turn them down.

Like many do. You are ridiculous and dont have a clue

Make this will explain it wolfie

Some people who advertise their male dogs as stud dogs, are ethical.

Some are not. The fact that they are advertising their dogs, or charging for services isnt what makes them ethical or unethical.

The fact that you cant understand, is your problem.

Actually she didn’t pay this time. She sought out the lines she wanted, bought a pup and years later she used him as a stud. Once

What?!
Hang on just a minute.

Your breeder breeds for show right?
I’m sure I have heard you saying you show your hounds?

So when breeding your breeder should be looking at the bitches strengths and weaknesses and picking a stud to complement to get pups that conform as closely as possible to the breed standards.

You can’t accurately assess a dog’s show potential, it’s strengths and weaknesses confirmation wise as a young puppy!

That’s why breeders often keep a puppy back then sell it at a later date as it later becomes clear they weren’t quite as perfect as they initially thought.

Your breeder by the sounds of it has just banged together any two healthy, nice enough dogs.

I think a lot of people who have, let's say, 'issues' with people, project them on to the topic of animals. If you really have animal welfare as your priority, you don't shut down a conversation, you gently encourage someone to do the right thing, because that is more likely to get a result. Being a fundamentalist is always about ego, not the cause itself.

Well, as healthy as a wolfhound can be anyway

I say this as a dog lover

Ah, you don’t have to tell me this, I can’t stand the Kennel Club!
I have very mixed feelings about the Kennel Club. It does some good stuff - it sponsors some research, for example, it maintains pedigree records which you can search online, and it has a COI calculator online and free for anyone to use. On the other hand, it has presided over a closed studbook system which is proving disastrous for a variety of breeds (Dobes and CKCS being that ones that spring first to mind) and also over a looks-based showing system which has often rewarded the extremes with no concern for the health consequences for the dogs. It's also taken all sorts of functional dogs and turned them into facsimiles of the breed - and not even very good facsimiles, either. It could give itself a bloody good shake-up and do a few things which would be great for canine health.

those of us who believe welfare should be paramount and dogs shouldn’t be exploited for monetary gain are “wankers”.
I think dog welfare is very, very important, and it's something I can get very aerated about. But I didn't feel that anyone was calling me a 'wanker'.

people who go to that website generally want the colour of pup they want, without travelling too far or waiting too long. They don’t want to think about welfare.
'Generally'. Not all. I've used pets4homes in the past, after rejecting litters on Champdogs for, amongst other things, sky-high COI. So shoot me.

It's not always easy to strike the right tone when posting (meaning can be misconstrued, nuance is missing).
Spot on.

Wolfie - people who go to that website generally want the colour of pup they want, without travelling too far or waiting too long. They don’t want to think about welfare.

You can’t make a generalisation about everyone looking at that website, it will just never be true. With our dog, the first port of call was the RSPCA website the second was Pets at Home. As I said, that opened my eyes to the variety of breeders. As I had already looked on the RSPCA website, I had an idea of what I should be looking for. I then found a breeder through the cockapoo club that was licenced with the council and had done health tests on mum and dad.

I had a colour preference (didn’t get it) and I certainly didn’t (don’t) want to travel for 8 hours to pick up a puppy. Partly because I’m not after a rare breed with only a handful of breeders and also an 8 hour journey with a puppy that has just been taken away from its home could be a very stressful drive. However, those weren’t the reasons I looked on Pets at Home. I looked on there because it pops up when you start searching. Welfare of the dogs was important to me. I rang a few breeders and asked many questions before we went and visited. Those breeders that didn’t ask questions of me and my situation, I didn’t make an appointment with. I saw the pups with their mum and the mum was well cared for. It helped massively to understand the variety of breeders out there. How do you recognise good if you’ve never seen the bad?

We are looking at getting another pup and I’ve locked at Pets at Home again, although again not found a breeder through the site. I’ve looked to put the comparison between breeders at the front of my thoughts again.

Novice dog owners can care about dog welfare. Saying something like using pets at home means you don’t care about dog welfare puts a lot of novice owners of asking for advice. If you were less black and white in your thinking and open to different people approaching things in different ways, you could actually share your knowledge with novice dog owners.

But if you’re allowed the pick of a special litter then you can have a very good idea that’ll it’ll turn out well. If it hadn’t worked out then she wouldn’t have been able to use the dog as a stud. Just like the females she has kept that will never have a litter.
I get it frosted. You don’t understand and don’t approve.
Her dogs have the most wonderful life. Yes they go to shows but a few a year. And the rest of the time they are with her at home.
Neither of the breeders I have used would send a dog to a new home because it didn’t turn out how they hoped. Because it isn’t about money or winning first at every show. They love their dogs. That comes first.