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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Has anyone any experience of a puppy with increasingly aggressive tendencies?

146 replies

ladyandthechocolate · 01/04/2018 20:33

We collected our miniature schnauzer puppy at 8.5 weeks old and he is now 15 weeks. We spent a long time finding a breeder and have had dogs before.
He is a lovely puppy and so good in many ways, affectionate, smart and calm but very stubborn. We use clicker training and he picks things up quickly.
We first started to notice him growling a bit very soon after we got him mainly when lifting him out of the car or up the step into the house (it's a big drop). This gradually extended to him growling, snarling and biting whenever doesn't want to do something i.e. Wiping his feet, moving him away from the dirty dishwasher, in/out of the car. We can no longer use a harness on him and he'll even growl when we clip and unclip his lead. He would snarl and bite if we removed food but obviously we don't do that- we have always been respectful of him but equally, treated him as a dog and not a baby.
It came to a head this week when I took him for his third set of jabs and he lost the plot and totally went for the vet when she went to lift him onto her table.
We have had a one to one with a trainer last week in addition to the puppy classes we are going to. He showed us some counter conditioner techniques to get him used to the kind of handling he isn't comfortable with. We've been practising these all week and I think he's made some good progress in that he will allow us to gently wipe his paws and groom him. The trainer was very confident that he'll be ok but I'm still worried really. I cannot imagine him being ok with being professionally groomed or having a proper vets examination without a muzzle.
Most of the time we can head off the situations before the growling stage but sometimes not - he got back from a really muddy walk and needed his paws washed. He was ok initially then tried to jump out, my DH held him to steady him and he bit him on the hand.
I was wondering if anyone has encountered this behaviour before and if so what happened? We have 4 DC and while he has shown no direct aggression to them I am mindful of closely supervising them.
The vet said it's really unusual to get such behaviour in a young puppy and I am worried he'll grow into an aggressive adult.

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 03/04/2018 21:10

Of course you can tell a dog off. It just may not have the result you want. Telling off a dog for growling may mean a dog bites without warning next time.

Ginger1982 · 03/04/2018 21:21

WTF bertielab? Alpha rolling the dog is NOT the answer!

Oops4 · 03/04/2018 21:23

And not telling your dog off could lead to exactly the same outcome.

HonkyWonkWoman · 03/04/2018 21:25

I have a cross lab and she is THE most calm, easy going dog that you could wish to meet but she will growl and snap if ever we have tried to lift her up.
We just don't now, it's some sort of fear reaction as she looks quite upset after she's snapped.
Also, when drying and wiping his feet be very gentle and talk reassuringly
to him.

You say that you have four children, it may be that they have picked him up clumsily and hurt him at some point. I would tell them not to pick him up.
Also do the children give him space? If they are bothering him all the time they will make him distressed and on edge.
I do think that if you are very calm and gentle around him, you will get him right.

Greyhorses · 03/04/2018 21:26

When will this alpha rubbish die off. It’s been disproven so many times yet people still spout this crap Hmm

Consistent and fair training with lots of positive reward makes for a much happier dog and works much more effectively. So many dogs messed up these days by people who have so little clue they shouldn’t own dogs at all!

Op, not aimed at you Smile

Shmithecat · 03/04/2018 21:30

If revisit the pain aspect - get another check up, and get the vet to check the dogs ears particularly. Did you get sight/copy of all the health tests/screening from the breeder?

Wolfiefan · 03/04/2018 21:32

Positive behaviour management achieves better long term results and a happier dog.
Telling a dog off isn't telling them how you do want them to behave. It's confusing and often counter productive.

Original poster
ladyandthechocolate · 03/04/2018 21:34

So, lots of new and interesting posts on this thread. Thanks all for your input, I know it is a contentious area but it helps to see all the sides.
So I spoke to the breeder who said as a breed they need a firm hand and this behaviour isn't uncommon. She advocated a firm growl/no.
So...we tried it as nothing else is working! He growled and snapped when I tried to shut the dishwasher door when he was licking a spoon so I sternly told him off and he looked startled but didn't repeat the behaviour later that day. I'm taking it easy and am not about to start alpha rolling but it is making me think we've moved too far away from discipline and perhaps there is a middle ground to be had.

OP posts:
fleshmarketclose · 03/04/2018 21:37

At 15 weeks Eric was at his most bitey stage, he wasn't stopped by our yelping or turning our back on him,he just nipped more. What worked was to put him behind the baby gate and ignoring him for a few minutes. He longed to be with us and it soon clicked that if he nipped he got moved away. By seventeen weeks the nipping had stopped.
Is he teething? We found the nipping increasing when he started losing his teeth. Frozen whole carrots or wet flannels frozen for him to chew on seemed to help as well.

Oops4 · 03/04/2018 21:37

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I have very content, confident, well bonded gentle terriers and won't be persuaded that if I hadn't set boundaries this would have been the case. Any method of dog training can be potentially damaging if done incorrectly. Telling people to never tell a dog off is just as likely to lead to problems as telling someone to physically reprimand. There is a balance between the two.

Bubble2bubble · 03/04/2018 21:38

What would have happened if instead of telling him off you called him away from the dishwasher and gave him a toy/ chew, ( and possibly contained him behind a stair gate) ?

Ginger1982 · 03/04/2018 21:40

I actually find with my JRT, who is prone to a bit of aggression, that saying 'ah-ah' very firmly is better than 'no.' It sounds a bit harsher and is quicker to say and definitely works for us!

Oops4 · 03/04/2018 21:47

ginger1982, that's what works for my two.....stops them in their tracks. We've used it consistently as "no" from day 1. Perhaps it's universal terrier language 😂

Original poster
ladyandthechocolate · 03/04/2018 21:49

@bubble2bubble that would have worked but...the growling and biting is happening multiple times per day. It is almost impossible to preempt and prevent it all the time.
It has got to the stage that we really need to cure the problem because although I can call him away, if I have friends over or family they will inevitably be bitten. He tried to bite my dad's leg yesterday when he moved him slightly to open a kitchen drawer.

OP posts:
NotTakenUsername · 03/04/2018 21:51

We have a great puppy but we don’t take any nonsense. Yes we tell her off, I can’t imagine how else we would teach her. You need a carrot and a stick.

Original poster
ladyandthechocolate · 03/04/2018 21:52

Butter wouldn't melt...
He's worn himself out pottering on the beach while the DC tried to push each other in.

Has anyone any experience of a puppy with increasingly aggressive tendencies?
OP posts:
Oops4 · 03/04/2018 21:54

He is very gorgeous OP. Trust your instincts, he's a baby and needs you to teach him what is right and what is wrong

Wolfiefan · 03/04/2018 22:10

He's gorgeous! Mine responds to being told manners! It is code for "you're pushing it and I am not happy!"
If she's bouncing at me turning away and folding my arms works great. Then playing with her when she isn't mouthing! Telling her off is meaningless. She doesn't know what I'm cross about and what behaviour I want instead.
How about throwing a treat when you want him to shift? Mine sometimes won't come in from the garden. Throwing a treat in the house works well
Good luck.

joystir59 · 03/04/2018 22:11

I sternly told him off and he looked startled but didn't repeat the behaviour later that day. OP excellent! And then when he stops doing the naughty action you give him loads of praise.

joystir59 · 03/04/2018 22:18

I don't know if terriers just require more firmness than other breeds, but our dog definitely understands a firm 'bahrr' sound (a bit like a dog growl in fact) when we want him to desist. We also do muzzle him when doing certain things such as showering him or in other ways handling him, or going out where there are children. He has bitten and would do again in certain situations. The muzzle always has a treat in it and he gets loads of praise when it comes off. It's the muzzle and the firm handling which are keeping him alive, putting it simply. We love him and he isn't going anywhere. But we do use discipline and we do muzzle him.

joystir59 · 03/04/2018 22:24

Our JRT is much more content, relaxed, soppy, and happy since we started using firmness and taking back control. We've had him 11 months and are his 4th family. We are now starting to see his wonderful personality and now we are in control. I can say hand on heart that he is truly our dog. Before,I always felt as though something dreadful was about to happen. Then it did- he bit my elderly mil on the hand. She requires alot of trips to the gp for dressings, and was understandably traumatised. It was a very harsh and necessary wake-up call. We called a behaviourist who showed us how to be leaders of the pack and take back control. We are so glad!

Wolfiefan · 03/04/2018 22:27

Leaders of the pack.
Any trainer who mentions pack theory needs to be sacked on the spot. Their outdated and misproven training methods may seem to work in the short term. They can cause extreme problems in the longer term.

Springsnake · 03/04/2018 22:40

This is a really interesting thread..I'm struggling a little with my girl..who can be snappy when she's stolen something and trying to guard it..our training classes were run on dominant theory and pack leader..we were told off if the dog walked in before us.stopped going 6 months ago as I wasn't convinced it was how I wanted to "parent".... I use treats to move her / get her to do what I need,and a sharp noise,....ah....when she is doing something she's not allowed(sitting on the table).. but she's a monkey for weeing in the house when it rains...we have had a lot of rain recently....

Springsnake · 03/04/2018 22:42

It's a work in progress for sure😀

Oops4 · 03/04/2018 22:42

Well we'll let you know when that happens, but you may be waiting a long time.

OP please keep us updated on how you get on.