Total beginner in dog ownership: advice please

[stilllovingmysleep]

Hi all

DH and I are starting to research about getting a dog. We have a DS aged 7. We want to do proper research before starting the actual process of looking for a dog. So far I've asked a few people who seem to have all sorts of different views so I'm confused! By the way, I've never owned a dog but DH always had dogs while growing up.

Both DH and I work but I am about to finish (in 3 months) a demanding job and will move to a more flexible job where I aim to be working long hours 3 days a week & the rest more flexibly. DH has lots of flexibility too.

Instead of asking specific questions, can I just throw this at you so that you can advise me about what to consider as first issues?

Eric who is a shih tzu poodle cross is our first family dog. I'd never been around dogs before and dh had always grown up with them. It has been more difficult than I ever imagined tbh. He is two now and lovely but he is still something extra to be considered in every plan and sometimes I miss the freedom of deciding on the spur of the moment to go out for the day.
He is only a small dog but he needs two good walks a day and plenty of attention or else he is bored and when he is bored he makes his own entertainment which generally means him emptying things or finding stuff he shouldn't have. He's not generally destructive,doesn't look at my books but he'd chew socks and pants from the linen basket if he got the chance.
I didn't enjoy the puppy stage really even if he was pretty good in so far as he house trained quickly and we never had a disturbed night because the breeder separated him from his mum and siblings before we picked him up (the positive of him being last to leave) He nipped a lot though and he had teeth like needles,he seemed to spend a lot of time attached to my trouser leg and most days were a battle to remove the latest treasure from his mouth before he ate it. He dug up the garden, ate and rolled in horse muck, fox poo, dead pigeon fundamentally anything that stunk he was game for.
The adolescent stage wasn't much better to be fair, he knew plenty of commands just chose not to bother to follow them and he was trying to say the least.
It's only now that the positives shine through,he's good fun, good company,we get out and about a lot more locally discovered walks I never knew existed despite living here all my life and the dc love him.
Grooming for Eric because he's got a poodle coat costs £30 every six weeks but the upside to that is there is no shedding so no hairs to clean up. He can be left quite happily for up to four hours which we built up to slowly from just ten minutes when he was twelve weeks old. I think you will need to think carefully about what sort of dog you get (poodles are very intelligent dogs and need a lot of stimulation to avoid behavioural problems any cross is likely to need a lot too) and also what care you are going to need when you are at work.Although Eric is happy for four hours occasionally he is a people dog and needs human company so wouldn't leave him regularly.

I could have sworn Eric was a pug cross. I feel rather cheated now!

Thanks itsallgoingtobefine: I'm not scared of some dogs as in terrified, just slightly nervous. I regularly walk in early mornings anyway in parks, and have never felt particularly worried about dogs, not that I can remember.

Och, it'll be alright OP. Yes, it's hard work (but rocket science it 'aint, and many people successfully own dogs!) but the best thing I ever did (first time dog/puppy owner here). I'm a big believer in children being brought up with pets, and dogs are best! If I had an only child, as you do, I would definitely go for it.
You sound very conscientious (if a bit fussy!) and I'm sure you'll make the right decision for your family. And if you're a bit clueless, well, I'm sure we all were a bit at the start!

Dieu I think he got a lot of the worst characteristics of both shih tzus and poodles. He's a shih tzu with brains a bit like giving a toddler a paintbrush and a can of emulsion really,lots of enthusiasm, no finesse and no chance of getting them to keep the paint where you want it

Bless him. My Shih Tzu boy has picture postcard looks, but is a total blonde bimbo! His look is one of permanent confusion, but we adore him!

I think there is a lot to be said for bimbo dogs. Eric's default is "I'll do it and try and get away with it" so he's sneaky and misses absolutely nothing. He sees you put a receipt on the shelf and ignores it, the minute your back is turned he is climbing like a goat to get it to hide behind the curtain or bury in the garden. Of course the shih tzu in him makes him stubborn as a mule and a bit needy too so he follows me like a shadow and only ham overcomes his bloody minded desire to do just as he pleases. Good job I love him really.

I am in a very similar situation to you OP. We are contemplating a dog in the next couple of years but I have the advantage in that I will probably be working from home. I also share your nervousness of staffies and other dogs which can look "muscly" and strong. I don't think there's anything wrong with that but I see the point that a PP made that we will need to get used to all types of dogs as we will inevitably see them around and about.

If we do go ahead we'll need something that doesn't moult so sadly a retriever is out for us. I do quite like some of the smaller dogs like Bichon Frise or even Scottie dogs but I suspect we'll end up going for a rescue.

Bichons can be yappy. I'd recommend Shih Tzus as a non-moulting breed, and they're fairly low barking too.

ChampagneTastes good luck with your search! What do you think is the main problem with shedding dogs? How bad does it tend to be (the dog hair I mean) when the dog sheds? Is it an allergy issue too?

Hi OP - I've joined Mumsnet so I can reply to your post!

My situation was similar to yours: my husband and I hadn't had any dogs as grown-ups, but we had them when we were children in the 70s and 80s. Obviously we weren't involved in any training or care then, and training methods have moved on somewhat since the 1970s!

We decided on a puppy, who we got at 8 weeks. She's now 11 months old and she's beautifully behaved and well trained. We are very proud of the job we've done with her as first-time dog owners. She's an absolute joy and makes us laugh every single day. So I just wanted to join Mumsnet and post to say to you that it's not an impossible task for a first-time dog owner to do a good job!

We were both dog lovers and had wanted a dog for years, but not having owned a dog before, we were clueless at first. But you have to start somewhere and we approached it by doing as much research as possible before we got a dog, as you are.

We read the following books before we got our dog: Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey, It's me or the Dog by Victoria Stilwell, and Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson. I'd especially recommend the last book because having a dog with a really good recall will make your walks much more pleasurable. These are all positive reinforcement training methods.

We also made sure we had good dog care in place before we got her. We both work full time, but I'm lucky enough to work at home. I do have to go into work sometimes for meetings though, so one day a week our dog goes to a fantastic day care we were lucky enough to find. We prefer her going to day care so she gets to spend time with lots of different dogs, rather than leave her on her own in the house. Plus, she's a Velcro dog and doesn't like to be left alone. The most we've left her for is an hour. I've videoed her and although she doesn't show any signs of separation anxiety such as toileting or howling or pacing, she won't touch the treat-filled Kong toys I leave for her until we get back home. So if we want to go somewhere, it's for an hour at the most, otherwise she goes to day care or to my husband's parents who also have a dog.

We were pretty confident we could handle the training, despite being new to it, as we'd read so much, but we also took her to puppy training classes. This was mainly for socialisation and mental stimulation for her. We're also looking into agility classes for when she's old enough - again for mental stimulation. We do training with her every day, reinforcing what she's already learnt and training new stuff as well. We also do dog puzzles with her - have a look at the Nina Ottosson range. We walk her three times a day and we take her to a variety of parks, woodlands and beaches, so she's constantly experiencing new places. We bought her a ton of toys - all good quality tough things with a variety of textures: soft squeaky toys, teething toys, plastic ones, etc. Kong do a good range that are pretty tough. We keep half of her toys in a box and rotate them every few weeks, so she doesn't get bored or matter-of-fact about any of them and she feels like she's regularly getting new things. All this mental stimulation, exercise and variety of toys has meant that we've had no problems at all with destructive behaviour. She hasn't chewed anything of ours at all.

We were prepared for it being hard work having a puppy, but the first couple of months were harder than we thought. There's just so much to do - toilet training, socialisation, separation training, getting them used to different situations and noises, being in the car, loose lead training, and so on. However, if you read those books, you can be fully prepared for all this. And it was totally worth it - she's such a good dog, her recall is fantastic, her behaviour is wonderful and she just gives us so much pleasure, fun and joy.

I'd say the most important things are to make sure the dog is well socialised from the start with other dogs and spend a lot of time on recall training.

Finally, with regards to the poodle crosses - cockapoos, cavapoos, labradoodles, and so on. I actually have one a poodle cross myself. I will say this: she has been a dream to train – she’s so clever - and she's got a lovely temperament; she adores being with humans and meeting people. I'd have another in a heartbeat. (They don't really like being left alone though, so if you do get a cockapoo, I'd seriously consider day care for the days you're at work, rather than a dog walker.) You will find some people have misgivings about these crosses, calling them 'designer dogs'. This is because they are extremely popular - they look very cute and so demand for them is high - and they are deemed to be a fashionable dog. As such, they can be associated with unscrupulous breeders and puppy farms, and therefore have a bad name. (Labradoodles were actually originally bred with good intentions as guide dogs for people with allergies.) Don't be put off getting one of these crosses. Just be aware that they are not a 'breed', they are a cross, and it is important to research both dog types well for potential health problems and also research breeders very carefully.

Depends on the breed really. Pugs shed about a million hairs a minute, some just leave a light scattering of hair.

Oh dear OP. If I'd have read some of the awful negative replies on here before I got my dog when she was an 8 week puppy, I'd have run screaming from The Doghouse, never looked back and would have concluded that owning a dog was such a terrible, difficult and unpleasant experience that it would definitely be something I would not want to do. Fortunately for me, and my dog, I didn't.

Yes, you have very little knowledge about dogs, as you say in your heading, but you are asking questions and doing research, how else are you supposed to learn? I'm sure no one on here was born knowing how to successfully train or bring up a happy fulfilled dog.

Your working hours could be a problem for some rescues but if you can prove you're going to cover those times when you're out all day, other rescues might not be so thrown by it. Yes, some dogs can't be left for more than a few hours - the Battersea advice says no more than 4 to 6 hours btw not a rigid 4 hours - but if you have a dog that can't be left at all then like other dog owners in that situation you have to make provision for it.

All sorts of people living all sorts of lives get dogs and some of those people's lives change, as long as they don't leave the dog on its own for long periods dogs will adapt.

Yes, your life will change if you get a dog, but unless you are very stupid, and I imagine you aren't, I'm sure you realise that.

If dogs are all as frightful as pps on here are saying why on earth would anyone get one and what are we all doing on this forum. Of course there are downsides to dog owning but the rewards are greater IMO.

My dog was incredibly easy, no inappropriate chewing, easy house training and generally just a pleasure. It's her fifth birthday today, she's my first dog and she's well trained, happy and calm. Some dogs are hard work some aren't; bit like children really.

Don't be put off by by what you've read on here, we all have to start with our first dog. If you do your research, find a dog that suits you and who you suit, and make sure you're always a responsible, caring owner the dog will be fine.

My DH is allergic to an awful lot of things, he hasn't shown signs of a dog allergy but then he's never lived with one so I think it's probably safest to get something that doesn't shed.

I'd be interested to hear what you finally end up going for and whether you go for a puppy or a rescue.

BTW, I saw your other thread - we are in a very similar position I think. I will try to post on it at some point in the next day or two.

Agree with Dogsmightfly. Don't be put off. DH and I both work full time and have a young dog we got as a puppy (a Jack Russell). Some days he goes to work with DH but on the other days I leave him while I go to work. He gets an hours walk first thing (mostly off lead across fields). Then he comes home, has his breakfast and settles down with some toys in the kitchen. I come home at lunch time and we have a small walk. After work he gets another hours walk. On occasion I've been late back at lunch time and - he's absolutely fine. He's never destroyed anything. He's a sweet sociable dog. The neighbours say they've never heard a peep from him. If you are prepared to train and walk a dog regularly, love him and look after him responsibly it will all be fine - honestly!
Consider puppy training though - it's so useful - and perhaps accept your garden might never be the same again!

Hi OP, my first suggestion would be to visit Dogs [[http://www.discoverdogs.org.uk/]] in October. It's held in London, and basically it's designed to be perfect for people like you who are considering dog ownership. It's run by the Kennel Club and features stands from all the different breeds so you can go along, meet lots of gorgeous dogs and find out more about them, plus meet breeders and breed rescues. There are also lots of stands giving info on dog activities and sports, dog foods, accessories, training etc. so it's a really enjoyable and useful day out.

Second - some suggested reading. Read "In Defence of Dogs" by John Bradshaw. This will give you an excellent oversight of dog background and behaviour. Other books which are worth putting on your list. "The Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training" by Pamela Dennison. For a bit more in depth stuff, try "The Other End of the Leash" by Patricia McConnell. There are masses of other books which are on Amazon. If you enjoy reading and stretching your knowledge base, get stuck in.

Third, over the summer, there will be a plethora of events such as local fun dog shows - often run by local rescues or charities. Go along to a few, watch some classes and activities, chat to dog owners (most of us love to talk about our dogs), enjoy yourself and soak up the dogs and how people interact with them. At these sorts of events, there are often lots of stalls where you can meet and greet a variety of dogs, ask questions, and see how your DC interacts with them.

Find a local rescue (just google dog resue anytown) and there will be either an all breed rescue or sometimes a specific rescue e.g. greyhounds. Most are very happy for volunteers to help walk the dogs. Get yourself and your DC along and commit to walking a dog at least once a week. This will be an excellent test for you all - are you able to be disciplined enough to commit the time, will your DC lose interest, will it clash with playdates/sporting events, what happens when it rains? This is a great way of finding out how you'll manage some of these issues.

You mentioned that you have lots of friends with dogs - talk to them, go for walks with them, bombard them with questions. If they are local to you, find out recommendations for vets, groomers, trainers, kennels etc. Good ones are all usually highly in demand.

Find a good local dog trainer. APDT is a good place to start looking. Ask if you can sit in quietly in a few classes for adult dogs. Bear in mind that training is lifelong, and not just going to six weeks of puppy classes. You will need to put work in if you want to get a well trained dog out, no matter how much you spend on a pedigree pup.

Bear in mind that a typical dog can easily live into their early mid teens. We met an 18 year old Staffie earlier in the week, a bit wobbly but very happy, bless him. If your DC is seven or eight when you get the dog, they could easily have left home by the time the dog is middle aged, so it really needs to be a dog YOU can live with in the long term. I also think that with a few exceptions most DC are not highly "dog motivated" in their teens - they are usually busy with exams, sports, and social life so although they dearly love their dogs, the time element of care will slip. Again, it's worth looking at this long term and making sure you are happy with that commitment day in day out.

People have rightly tried to portray all the responsibilities of dog ownership - this is purely because we all care deeply about them. Dogs bring us so much joy, so much unconditional love that they deserve a loving, lifelong home where their needs are met fairly, including exercise, stimulation and above all our companionship. Personally, I couldn't imagine life without our four - even though my house is often messy, the car is mud encrusted and I have got used to dog hair as a condiment. But as others have said - it is a lifestyle change. It's not for everyone and there's nothing wrong with that. If you do embrace it though, it will be the most wonderful, joyful, exhilarating, funny and heartwrenching adventure.

Dogsmightfly, thanks SO much for joining Mumsnet just to answer my post and I do hope you stay on MN and enjoy it. I really really appreciate all your suggestions.

Thank you also to everyone else, I've really appreciated your comments and finally I feel more hopeful. I think in the next months I will start visiting, together with DS, some local shelters, friends with dogs etc to gather as much info as I can.

In terms of dog walking. I'm the one willing / wanting to do more dog walking rather than my DH who is willing however to participate in anything around the house and do the occasional walk. So I guess a cockapoo sized dog or even smaller might make more sense as we won't be able to do hours & hours of dog walking each day, but up to 1 or 1.5 hour should be fine. (I hope that's realistic and I'm not underestimating it?) I'm also going to get in touch with a local dog daycare who looks really promising just to get info as that seems a really good route to go down, and absolutely necessary with a puppy but maybe with all dogs for the days we're not home.

Questions people haven't addressed yet: male or female? neuter or not?

Our dog came from a farm in Somerset and is a male. I had decided to get a bitch but when we went to see the puppies the last female had been spoken for. I really wanted a puppy from that litter (know the mum and dad and both great dogs). So we had a boy and it's fine. More important to get a healthy well adjusted puppy.
He's going to be neutered. Unless you want to breed from a dog you should neuter. And it stops roaming hopefully.
If you can only do one walk a day get a breed with low exercise requirements.
Don't be deceived by size in this. For example Jack Russells are small but need lots of exercise snuffling in woods and running across fields. A well exercised dog is a good dog (hopefully).
Our dog is my first since I was a child. It's a learning curve but so worth it!

Scuttlebutter, thanks SO much for the fantastic suggestions. I'm a bookworm so I'll definitely take up your book suggestions. Also the idea of visiting shelters / volunteering etc for 6 months or so sounds sensible & useful--I'll definitely look into that. I could also perhaps visit a local dog daycare that I found to have an initial chat.

I've had dogs all my life, only a puppy once, and quite frankly - never again! Worse than a baby.....

We now have retired greyhounds, wonderful dogs only require a couple of 20 minute walks a day and sleep for England the rest of the time.

I always find on mn that when people are seeking advice on pet ownership there are a lot of negative comments or snobbery that is passive aggressive and not supportive.

OP I have experience with dogs and there are some dogs that are ok to be left during working hours a couple of times a week. If you've got a dog walker then even better. A puppy would not tolerate being left long periods but older calmer dogs should have no problem doing this. If there isn't someone at home most of the time for the first 9-12 months them a puppy isn't advisable, go for a rescue dog instead. After a bit of settling start with basic dog training classes, it allows some socialising and will help you get the basics. Get advise from an experienced dog trainer once you have chosen your dog and then you should be prepared once you collect them. Try and pick a dog that has been around children and has never shown aggression in their history.

Frillyflower, thanks. No I don't have in mind 1 walk per day. But what feels realistic for our family atm is one long walk in the morning by me, then it would depend during the day--on days I'm there or DH is there we would do a lunch time walk, or dog day care alternatively / or dog walker.

Then it's the evening walk I'm more concerned about as that's the time I would be more tired and I would hope a shorter walk would be OK.

That sounds fine stillloving. More than fine even. You sound like you will be a great dog owner. If you are keen on walking and like a little dog with great character i can recommend a JR. Here's my little chap to encourage you!

It's not necessarily the length of walk that matters but how much they have to use their brain. I have a Border Collie which is a high activity dog but find he's fine with one walk a day and then I do some training or Sprinkles (google it) and he's relaxed and calm for the rest of the day, five minutes play or training here and there keeps his brain tired. Sometimes he gets 2 walks and sometimes he is left for 4-5 hours during the day (DS is in normally but is upstairs)
I was told when I had my first collie, you can walk them for hours and they'll just get fitter but use their brains and they're fine.

If you can find a training group that do social walks that's ideal as the variety of other dogs in a relatively controlled environment tires them out brilliantly as they have to use their minds to 'read' the other dogs.
Remember small dog does not necessarily equal less need for stimulation and exercise.

We got our first dog as a pup at the beginning of the year, he's a gorgeous show cocker. Yes the early weeks were difficult with the constant having to watch him but we've had 4 accident free days now so I'm hoping toilet training is cracked and he's been dry overnight for a few weeks. We've done puppy training classes and are now moving onto older puppy classes which I've found to be of great benefit as he has socialised with many other dogs and as a result his temperament is lovely and sweet natured. He's happy with up to an hour of exercise a day at present (over two or three walks) and spends the rest of the time flopped out in bed or on the settee. He is fantastic with the children and has fast become DS's (6) best friend. His training is coming on leaps and bounds and whilst not perfect his recall isn't too bad at all and I can always (touch wood!) get him to come back with the promise of a treat, even when having a whale of a time playing with other dogs. I'm a shift worker and DH is 9-5 and DD 12 is around after school plus we have a willing MIL who is retired who when necessary will have him at her house however he does get left alone and generally when we return he is curled up in his bed in his crate in the kitchen and it can take him a few seconds to realise his humans have returned before he lazily gets up and strolls over to see if we can be persuaded to partake in a tummy rub. I absolutely adore him and would never have described myself as a massive dog person before despite always having one as a child.

Plus - look at his face!