Total beginner in dog ownership: advice please

[stilllovingmysleep]

Hi all

DH and I are starting to research about getting a dog. We have a DS aged 7. We want to do proper research before starting the actual process of looking for a dog. So far I've asked a few people who seem to have all sorts of different views so I'm confused! By the way, I've never owned a dog but DH always had dogs while growing up.

Both DH and I work but I am about to finish (in 3 months) a demanding job and will move to a more flexible job where I aim to be working long hours 3 days a week & the rest more flexibly. DH has lots of flexibility too.

Instead of asking specific questions, can I just throw this at you so that you can advise me about what to consider as first issues?

And cost...
The monthly/annual insurance varies massively from breed to breed, so when you come up with your shortlist, do a few dummy quotes to compare.
But also bear in mind there will be things that the insurance doesn't cover, such as annual injections, neutering, nail clipping, clearing their ears, so get an idea of the costs for that.
Plus the costs of food. You can spend a little and get supermarket food, or spend a lot on good quality kibble or raw food - something to do some research on when thinking about the breed (raw food means the least foul poos, if that's is a help...)
Plus dog paraphernalia- leads, beds, poo bags, etc. It isn't a big annual cost but it's a fairly big initial outlay when you first get them, and like babies, always better to borrow from those who have grown out of the pup stage for some bits!
Grooming can be a big cost if you have a dog that needs a lot of attention. My DF has a cockerpoo who needs clipping every few months at a cost of £50 a go, for example...

I think if you have whole days you work then you may need to look into puppy day care rather than a quick spin round the block with a neighbour.

Sparechange: thanks for the ideas / things to consider. We don't travel a lot. We are not hugely house proud but we do have freshly painted white walls and many many books. I hope dogs don't eat books!! Our sofa is massively old and battered.

They're cute for about 10 minutes

What is puppy day care?

Also: is it seriously the case that most people with dogs don't work? I'm getting a bit scared by the 4 hour thing!

Yep, I've had a book eater, teeth marks in pages and whole corners eaten - get a kindle!

We have kindles but also hundreds of books. Are you saying there's no way to train dogs not to eat books?

You can do longer than 4 hours but with a dog walker coming in - but that's for an adult dog, not a pup, pups need a lot of attention and supervision in the first few months

You can train them, but it might still happen a few times - shoes are another favourite, and socks - it could be anything really, they all have different things that they like to chew

Puppy day care is what is says on the tin... Someone has your puppy all day and looks after it. Helps with house training, basic training, gives it company and allows the pup to socialise with other dogs.
They would usually collect the pup in the morning and then return it to your house late afternoon so it has company all day.
Like nursery with a pick up/drop off service.

You can us dog daycare for older dogs as well. I use this for mine, because I don't think an hour walk at lunchtime is enough company, companionship or exercise at the moment.
My older rescues were happy with a lunchtime visit and comfy bed to sleep on the rest of the time.

Daycare costs will vary by area, but ballpark, allow £30 a day

Not all dogs are the same. Even some well settled and trained dogs would go mental if left for four hours.
Doggy daycare is like a nursery but for dogs. We have a few round here. It means that the dog gets company and stimulation during the day rather than a quick walk from a dog walker to break up a long day.

You'd need to commit time to potentially taking a dog to training classes, as well as putting in the time at home. A rescue dog might not be used to walking on a loose lead/interacting with other dogs etc...

Our dogs have never eaten books or chewed furniture, but are partial to counter surfing and chasing cats/pigeons etc...

Of course dogs can be trained not to chew, just like children can be trained not to spill paint and draw on walls. But expect a few accidents along the way!
Books can be temporarily moved out of their way, but you will need to put time into training and be consistent.
A well-trained dog is one of life's greatest pleasures. A badly trained one can ruin your life.
Which one you get depends on how much work you are prepared to put in, or if you don't have the time or inclination to do it, how much money you can throw at the problem (but this should be a last resort)

You can train them not to chew stuff but it can take a while for the training to work. Even then they will get something they know they are not allowed if they can get away with it! Books will probably be safe enough as they're not that fun to chew.

Most dog owners I know work part time or not at all. The few I know that work full time have supportive families that look after the dog.

I hope all of this isn't putting you off too much but it is best to know all the facts first. It's already been said but each dog has its own personality and this is just a general thread of what dogs are like.

Yes puppies are really cute. They are also a MASSIVE pain in the bum. My lovely ddog nearly broke me as a pup
Bitey, mad, and didn't sleep through the night until he was 9. Months. Old.

My youngest dog is 2 and still likes an early morning wee or poo at anything from 5-6.30am, fortunately I have menopausal sleep issues and am often awake then anyway. The other one is 4 and we have to wake him up to go out for a wee

I'm no expert but I have a beautiful little dog so thought I'd share my two cents

Do you have any family members/friends that could help you out OP?

I have a 2 year old cocker spaniel and we're lucky that my fiance's parents look after him quite a lot for us when we're at work. I work 9-5 and my fiancé works strange shifts so our work hours normally overlap.

Our dog is only ever alone for a couple of hours at a time thanks to my in laws who watch him for us if he'll be left alone any longer than that, although he'd happily manage 4 hours or so if we were all out for whatever reason. I agree that I wouldn't want him left longer - dogs get very attached to you and I get upset at the thought of him being bored and lonely!

Training definitely depends on the puppy. My dog was super easy to train and he's (mostly!) fairly calm for a spaniel. He didn't really have the chewing phase, he was toilet trained and learned basic commands quickly when he was very little. On the other hand, my parents' Labrador was a nightmare as a puppy - she would chew anything in sight and was generally just a bit crazy until she got to about 5! Now she's nearly 12 and is a very different little lady There's no real way of predicting what sort of personality you're going to get with a puppy but it is very rewarding.

I think I'd be inclined to go for an older (and by that I mean maybe 2 y/o+?) rescue if you're going to struggle to be at home a lot, and I agree with PPs that puppy day care might be good. It's not just being let out for the loo that dogs need after a few hours, they need plenty of mental stimulation and attention which helps to stop them from being anxious/bored and consequently destructive.

Do you have any idea of a breed you'd like to look into? I'd absolutely love to rescue a greyhound but I think my house is too small!

Also: is it seriously the case that most people with dogs don't work? I'm getting a bit scared by the 4 hour thing

No this is not the case in the slightest and only on MN have I ever encountered people with such strict rules as to who is "allowed" to own dogs.

I have two big dogs. I work full time. Yes, when they were puppies I would come back mid morning and mid afternoon to take them out but stopped coming back for lunch time walks when they flat out refused to go out in the heat.

My dogs do nothing but sleep all day, even when I am home with them. Of course this is not the case with all dogs but it's not correct to say that leaving them any longer than 4 hours is wrong or bad.

I absolutely agree that taking on a pup or rescue is a huge and lifelong commitment, however there is no rule that says the second you have to leave them over 4 hours you're not a suitable dog owner.

If you and your family have the time, capacity and love to train and raise a dog then go for it! Take the time to read on the Internet (not on mumsnet!!) and decide on which methods of training you'd like to use, if you'd like to crate train, if a pup or rescue is better for you.

And yes, I agree wholeheartedly that puppies are damn cute but my god they're hard work!!
Elvis cried all night for 3 weeks and whilst he was excellent on the toilet training, standing outside making waiting for him to do his business at 4am was less than fun.
Both my newborns were easier! 😄

Stokethefurrywall: 4 am!!!!??? Why? [showing my importance here]

Obviously meant showing my ignorance!!!!!

Because they're babies who need to pee and poo little and often, and if you want them house trained you have to take them out when they need. You see, we know of what we speak when we say they need a lot of time and attention

No this is not the case in the slightest and only on MN have I ever encountered people with such strict rules as to who is "allowed" to own dogs

sorry but this isn't remotely true.
No decent rescue would let you have a dog that was going to be left alone all day, and absolutely no half-responsible breeder would let you buy a puppy that was going to get left alone with the 'occasional' visit.

Id be hugely suspicious of anyone who let you, as first time dog owners, take a dog which was going to be left alone for most or all of the day.
You should definitely assume that dog ownership includes the cost of having someone with the dog most of the time

I live in a country where there are so many stray dogs and pups in the humane society that they are crying out for homes, one of ours was born in the humane society, the other was rescued from under a car at 7 weeks old.
I live 5 minutes from my office and popped back whenever I needed to when they were little.
Now they have each other, and that's fine, both DH and I stopped bothering coming back to walk them and play with them when they could barely be bothered to move off the ground.
They're far more active and playful in the afternoons when we get in.

What i was trying to say was that there is no hard and fast rule that says "you must not leave them for more than 4 hours otherwise you're a bad dog owner" - if you can give your dog and otherwise warm, loving and caring environment and your dog is not in distress at being left then the 4 hours is arbitrary.

Dogs Trust, Battersea, RSPCA all say a dog shouldn't be left alone for more than 4 hours:
https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/help-advice/factsheets-downloads/factsheettimeforadog05.pdf

https://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232734741810&mode=prd

From Battersea's website:
Dogs are very much companion animals and do tend to suffer if left alone for extended periods of time. As a general rule of thumb, an adult, mature dog over five years old should not be left for more than four to six hours on a regular basis. A dog younger than this can generally be left a couple of hours but puppies should not really be left at all when they are very young, and the time they spend alone should be very gradually built up.

One of the most common reasons dogs are brought in to Battersea Dogs & Cats Home are due to separation problems as dogs can become very stressed or bored when left alone. Dogs will bark, mess or become destructive if anxious and this can be a very complicated and time-consuming problem to work through, especially if you are not at home for long periods of time.

As a rescue centre, we rarely have dogs that would be able to be left for extended periods of time. On the occasions we do, we require a letter from a dog walker saying they will be coming in to walk the dog in the absence of the owner. Everyone’s situation is however treated individually, for example, if your day can be broken up or you can take the dog to work then an older dog may be a possibility for you. Our rehoming staff will be able to advise you further based upon your individual scenario.