Dog bit dd last night ...

[butterfliesinmytummy]

I have posted before about our 18 month old rescue dog. She is ridgeback x staffie and we've had her since she was 8 weeks old - she was a stray in a shelter. She has a very high play drive and loads of energy - I'm a sahm who likes walking a lot! We think we have done everything right - we crate trained, we use positive reinforcement, we did puppy training, we exercise her a lot, we train on a regular basis (her basic commands are super sharp) and she's a smart dog.

She has snapped at and bitten (without breaking skin) people she doesn't know in daycare before (she goes one half day a week) and we recently worked with a behaviourist for several weeks. He did several sessions with us, working on training, giving her more confidence and advised the daycare people on how to handle her, to give her a wide berth (avoiding triggers). We don't walk off the lead as it's not allowed where we live (USA) but we give people a wide berth when we are walking too (mainly because she tends to jump up).

Dd2 is 6 and adores the dog. She has been taught not to look into the dog's eyes, not to cuddle her, not to disturb her when she's sleeping, eating etc but she "forgets" and cuddles the dog, which I can tell the dog is uncomfortable with. Last night my back was turned and all of a sudden the dog growled and dd screamed. The dog didn't break her skin but it left a red mark on her cheek that I could see hours later. I am 99% sure that dd2 was hugging the dog or staring at her etc because the mantra in our house is "leave the dog alone". She is constantly "on" the dog, hugging her, chatting to her, playing with her feet, kissing her.....

I am worried that this is a warning, the dog has form for this and I have no idea what to do next, or what will happen next. Dd2 was wrong in the way she was hugging the dog and we have had discussions time and time again about being respectful and only petting the dog under certain circumstances etc. This has really shaken dd2 and I'm hoping that she has learned a lesson but I am really upset and unsure where to go from here.... I don't think I can rehome a mixed breed that bites and nearly all shelters here are kill shelters, there is a real problem with overpopulation of dogs. Help!

butterflies I haven't got much to add, you've had a lot of good advice (and sparked some debate!). I just wanted to say that I had a very similar thread 'dog bit DS this morning' I think it was, some months ago.

We had only had our dog for four months or so and had rehomed her from a family with small children. She loves all adults, and tolerates the children. Looking back on it, I was very naive about children and dogs, and allowed DS (3) to poke and prod her far too much. She gave a warning growl, then when he continued to plonk her on the head with a shoe, she bit his arm, leaving a tiny bruise but not breaking the skin. I was totally rocked by this, and after receiving some excellent advice on here and from professionals, put a few things in place:

constant supervision of DS and dog: they are now never alone together, even if I just have to pop upstairs for a second

complete re-wiring of DS' relationship with the dog, and ALL dogs: I realised I had made them completely fascinating to him (look, there's another doggy! Oh that's a nice little dog, see it? do you want to give ddog a treat/dinner? etc) so I did a lot of distraction and tried to make the dog very boring

Dog is now told to go away in situations where I think she might be starting to get uncomfortable (she just didn't seem to want to leave adult company/think she COULD leave)

Things are so much better, and more relaxed. We subsequently discovered the dog is a lot older than we thought (10!) so that also changed things. Who will want a 10 year old dog, on long-term medication, with a history of biting?! We are her last stop, bless her. I set a time frame for the above measures to make a difference to her levels of stress and if I had thought she was still stressed, she would have been PTS. Rehoming will only make her other neuroses worse.

Luckily things are much better now. DS has learned so much (so have I, I cringe when I see children hanging off/cuddling/bashing dogs) Ddog is lovely, she just has a limit. I know now what that is, and make sure she doesn't get pushed to it again.

I hope you feel ok about whatever decision you have to make.

I have been bitten a couple of times. The first time when I was about 2 or 3 and it was entirely my fault, and the second time, it was pretty much my fault too. The second dog who bit me (breaking the skin and holding) bit other people too and was eventually put down. A snap without breaking the skin sounds restrained. A terrified dog is a frightening animal to have around. I hope your behaviourist is helpful. What a horrible situation.

Sadly I think this info goes someway to explaining the issue:

Choice of dog, I have already explained, she was the tiny shy one with sticking out ribs in a room of 40 crates with barking dogs.

To be clear I'm not blaming the OP for her choice - its easy to be wise after the fact, but any behaviourist worth their salt will tell you to always choose a confident inquisitive puppy - never a shy one.
www.apbc.org.uk/blog/choosing_a_puppy
www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/choosing-puppy-litter

Most canine aggression is fear-based, and temperamentally anxious or 'shy' puppies are thus less able to cope with stress and interaction, and more likely to display fear-aggression.

Alpha status and dominance don't exist in domestic dogs
www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html
and confident puppies are more likely to grow into calm confident dogs that take everything in their stride and don't react to stressors aggressively or fearfully.

If you have children, please don't choose a shy or nervous pup.
This has excellent info on how kids should interact with dogs
drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs

Ok. Wrong choice of dog maybe. Have you ever been in a Texas dog shelter? 8 rooms with about 40 dogs in small crates in each room, hurling themselves at the bars barking their heads off. 90% of them are traumatized grown dogs who will be pts within a week, the others are shivering puppies, totally intimidated by the noise and smell. Which one do you pick? This isn't the dogs trust, there are no calm confident puppies in that situation..... We thought we did right by taking in an unwanted dog rather than encouraging breeding....

You have done the right thing! Dog culture is very different in different parts of the world, even in UK it varies massively. If your dog is deemed to be dangerous, really, it's not your fault. At the moment it seems as though it is hanging in the air and it's horrible for all concerned. It sounds as though you were not given any information by the shelter. Shame on them. Please don't let whatever the outcome put you off keeping a dog. Even from the shelter. Information is power!

I know Butterflies and as I said it's much easier to think about this after the fact. The information is there to try and help others in future.

For what it's worth I haven't been to Texas but have worked extensively in Asia - it's usual to have 3,000 dogs in a shelter in groups of 200 all fighting and competing for attention/food/shelter so i can understand the challenges you faced. I'm less familiar with Dogs Trust however.

OP - Just tonight, DD came wandering into the kitchen, saw ddog2 sparked out on the floor, laid on the floor right next to his face, grabbed his head and shouted his name loudly in his face, then tried to justify her actions when he let out a tiny growl. DDog1 would have tolerated this. She got bollocked needless to say. She's 13. It's hard isn't it? Good luck.

Butterflies - I picked the right puppy...as in, he's from lovely parents, we took him because the breeder reccomended him as the most laidback puppy and our visits confirmed it.

At 6 months old his ortho specialist said he was the nicest rottie he'd ever met.

He's now muzzled every time he leaves the house, vet nurses are advised not to look directly at him or stroke him and he has given a vet his paw and then jumped at her snapping and snarling because she had his paw

Sometimes everyone can do everything right and a dog has problems anyway, I know why, which does make it a bit easier to come to terms with I suppose, but sometimes it is just the dog.

op you did nothing wrong. This is not your fault. You have done far more than many would and you have provided a wonderful home.

I hope my posts haven't upset you, they were aimed at others.

There's no doubt in my mind after reading your posts that there is nothing you have done here that's caused all this and I know you have tried so hard with to your dd too.

This is not anything you have done. You couldn't have done things more right if you'd tried.

Thanks everyone again for your perspectives and advice. This is such an emotive issue and so many have strong views. We will do what is best for our dds and our dog (in that order) and keep you posted.

Good luck, OP, I don't envy you.

Good luck OP. You will have to make some tricky decisions in the future and I don't envy you at all. You seem to have tried what appeared to be all the right steps. Whatever happens, I really wish you all the best.

This is an unpopular opinion here, but if for whatever reason you end up getting a new dog while you still have small children I actually recommend getting a dog from a reputable breeder or petshop. My family has always had rescue pets but when there were small children around we decided to go to a breeder as you can monitor the puppies from very young, see their temperament, get advice from the breeder who is with them 24/7 and has experience. You know their breed and medical history and you know their personality. As children can't be well behaved all the time, having a specially bred family pet is ten times easier and safer, in my experience.

Not everyone will agree with the second part of my post, but I hope that everyone agrees with the first part! Good luck.