Dog bit dd last night ...

[butterfliesinmytummy]

I have posted before about our 18 month old rescue dog. She is ridgeback x staffie and we've had her since she was 8 weeks old - she was a stray in a shelter. She has a very high play drive and loads of energy - I'm a sahm who likes walking a lot! We think we have done everything right - we crate trained, we use positive reinforcement, we did puppy training, we exercise her a lot, we train on a regular basis (her basic commands are super sharp) and she's a smart dog.

She has snapped at and bitten (without breaking skin) people she doesn't know in daycare before (she goes one half day a week) and we recently worked with a behaviourist for several weeks. He did several sessions with us, working on training, giving her more confidence and advised the daycare people on how to handle her, to give her a wide berth (avoiding triggers). We don't walk off the lead as it's not allowed where we live (USA) but we give people a wide berth when we are walking too (mainly because she tends to jump up).

Dd2 is 6 and adores the dog. She has been taught not to look into the dog's eyes, not to cuddle her, not to disturb her when she's sleeping, eating etc but she "forgets" and cuddles the dog, which I can tell the dog is uncomfortable with. Last night my back was turned and all of a sudden the dog growled and dd screamed. The dog didn't break her skin but it left a red mark on her cheek that I could see hours later. I am 99% sure that dd2 was hugging the dog or staring at her etc because the mantra in our house is "leave the dog alone". She is constantly "on" the dog, hugging her, chatting to her, playing with her feet, kissing her.....

I am worried that this is a warning, the dog has form for this and I have no idea what to do next, or what will happen next. Dd2 was wrong in the way she was hugging the dog and we have had discussions time and time again about being respectful and only petting the dog under certain circumstances etc. This has really shaken dd2 and I'm hoping that she has learned a lesson but I am really upset and unsure where to go from here.... I don't think I can rehome a mixed breed that bites and nearly all shelters here are kill shelters, there is a real problem with overpopulation of dogs. Help!

No one wants to see the dog dead ffs. stop connecting as if we are all being blasé and uncaring about the life that will be lost.

keeping children we from dogs 24/7 is not possible. It just isn't.

We can do out vest to teach kids but there will be times something o's forgotten or excitement takes over. There just will be.

so ergo the dog cannot stay where it is.

The ideal home would be fab of course it would. hearing of the dog running free playing and having fun would be the best new ever.

BUT when an animal needs a specific kind of home in a hurry there is always the risk. that home will not be found.

People aren't exactly queuing up to take dogs that have bitten a child and can't be looked at in the eye.
which is why sometimes, just sometimes
PTS is better and let cruel than stressing the dog out in shelters they can't cope in, going from unsuitable home to unsuitable home developing more and more issues until one day it snaps and someone is seriously hurt and the poor things taken way by the police and euthanised.

reminding someone they have the option of ensuring that the dog goes when it at least has a home and a loving owner is not a bad thing.

shelters aren't always the best option. and sone people actually care what happens to the poor thing after it leaves the home.

This ba*tard needs putting down!

I have no idea why on earth you choose a staffie with a (then) 4 yr old in the house.Did you not wonder why he was in the shelte?, do you not read the papers about dog attacks on children -nearly always a staffie

Then when it bit people at daycarer, that was a warning to you.Now it has attacked your child, despite all its training

Don't send him back to a shelter where he can be rehomed and attack another child.He needs to be PTS ASAP

And its not just as simple as finding a home without kids.

It means finding someone who's dog walking area aren't full of children.

who have no children in the family or any friends with children .

who don't live near a school or cinema or swimming pool where children walking past and stroking through the fence is not a possibility.

someone who has enough land maybe that dog walking isn't necessary.

who has a secure house and surrounding land.

who can afford all the training props and people.

don't be so naive to think It's just about a child free home

sadly i think Giles is right :( My dog bit my DD and battersea dogs home basically told me if i returned him he would be PTS. So i tried to rehome him myself via a dog trainer that we used for him. As it turned out we had to PTS due to cancer anyway but i had a bit of time because my DD2 was only 6m whilst DD1 (who he bit) was 16. I knew that once DD2 was crawling i couldnt keep him. I honestly cannot say if i would have found the right home for him and i was in a good position to do so being an ex vet nurse so i had a lot of contacts, i wouldn't have let him go with a familly with young children so i cannot say hand on heart what the outcome would have been if fate hadn't taken things out of my hands. There was no way on this earth i would have returned my dog to a kennel situation as he displayed extreme distress when he was there first time around, i couldnt have done it to him.

For those saying PTS PTS PTS - a child has the right to live in her own home, sorry. You are conflating two things -

First, a child's right to live in her own home.
Second a child's right to live in her own home while learning appropriate ways to behave in family and society at large.

If the second thing doesn't happen I,e, child gets to treat a pet like a rubber duck, kick off at will, throw tantrums if she doesn't get ice cream at 2 am - then,well, the child is at fault and there is serious learning to do. Pets are not toys. They are indeed massive learning experiences for kids. Experiences in respect, sharing, love and responsibility.

The dog is not at fault in this situation. It has been treated with disrespect repeatedly. And then again. And no the child isn't just "looking at her".

Please re home. The dog does not deserve to live in a situation where a random person just picks it's sleeping head up to place awkwardly, where it's body is squeezed like a life jacket when drowning. A pet does not deserve it.

Please find an alternative home for a pet that has done nothing wrong.

If you sent this story to the Daily Fail they'd run a front pager on it along the lines of "nasty animal mauls terrified cherub of a child and irresponsible mother NOT putting it to sleep".

My blood is boiling. This dog needs a home where it will be respected. Where higher lives will behave like higher lives.

I don't want the dog dead, but...

A dog that has bitten more than one person in different circumstances isn't a dog that is easy to rehome, people aren't queuing up to take on large dogs with issues.

Why condemn a dog to a miserable existance in a shelter? Being PTS is kinder in some circumstances and a dog that would not find a home because it has a behavioural issue can be one of those circumstances.

The thing is, this isn't really a dog problem - yes the OP can work with her behaviourist and hopefully improve how the dog reacts to her DD and manage the dog better, but without stopping her DD behaving like that then it isn't really fixable.

Choclover - I have made my feelings regarding this dog clear, I would put it down without a second thought but whoa there!

Staffies are the only breed the kennel club recommends with children, they are also known as the nanny dog because of their kind, gentle nature!
I have met vicious dogs; retrievers and sprinters mostly, some jack Russell's, a poodle. None of those breeds, except possibly the jack has a reputation for being bad with kids.
It's down to the individual dogs experiences' not their breed.

I absolutely love staffs and have never met a mean one, ever :(

My blood is boiling. This dog needs a home where it will be respected. Where higher lives will behave like higher lives

ok, shelters lie. check out the other thread going at the moment where a new owner wasn't told about a pain problem the dog has. and her dog needs an xray.

The next person likely will respect the dog.

However, what is needed is a damn sight more complicated as I pointed out in my post above.

The person taking on the dog basically does so on the pretence that they can't have lids or have grand kids over. to secure their front and back gardens, to continue with expensive behavioural therapy.

The dog is young too so anyone old enough to have grown up kids and grand kids may well have or develop health problems due to age. what happens then if two tears down the line when they become to ill to walk him.

The only relevance this dog's breed has is that it is big and powerful and as a result could inflict a lot of damage compared to a small dog. That's it.

If this dog like this after years in a loving home with someone who's sought all the help and done all the right things, how do yku think the dog will be in a not so good home or homes 3 4 and five after the others don't work out.

It's not about killing the dog. It's about sparing the dog the stress and pain and further issues down the line. about allowing their last days to be filled with love not rotting in a shelter waiting and waiting for a home that may not exist any time soon

Don't get me wrong - putting any dog to sleep is an ethical issue but not a welfare issue - the dog knows nothing of it. But this situation will be repeated and this little girl is at risk unless she learns and learns quickly to respect animals.

But OP, its not just about your DD's behaviour, as you said yourself, your dog has biten others. Everyone has to tiptoe around a dangerous and powerful dog who bites.

You can't train the dog so you're getting the dog behaviourist to train your DD and you still can never know if your DD will be safe round that dog.

This is not a family pet. You might find someone who wants it, but not a family.

I would try to rehome, but then I think you have to consider PTS, this isn't a dog that's suitable for being round families.

Sorry OP, I know that you love this animal, but I think you will have to have it put to sleep.

I suppose the alternative would be to find it work as a guard dog.

This is not for the op

this is for those who say rehome or return to shelter.

60 % of dogs in a shelter are PTS.

20 % are returned half of which is within w weeks
www.examiner.com/article/statistics-on-pet-adoption-and-pet-ownership-crunching-the-numbers

I think you have done as much as you can but I totally agree with Crap.

It's your daughter who cannot be trusted. You have told her not to do certain things and she does the complete opposite resulting in this.

What a horrible situation. For your own child's safety, you MUST MUST teach her to leave dogs alone. Some of our dogs don't like children. We do everything we can to keep everyone safe, and the children are taught in no uncertain terms that they must leave the dogs alone unless the dogs approach them. This goes for all dogs. There are ways of behaving around dogs that will help to prevent bites. It is sooooo important.

Rehoming is not an option here people. The OP has said she lives in Texas, which has a particularly bad unwanted dog problem. I lived there for 3 years and got involved in dog rescue. It was heartbreaking. The city pounds and dog wardens are overrun. Every day they are putting down DOZENS of dogs in each site - thousands state-wide in a year. Owner turn-ins are PTS within 24 hours because, unlike strays, no one is going to come looking for them. Unless they are very cute and happen to get lucky and are pulled by one of the many rescues, they don't stand a chance.

The rescue I fostered for has very stringent rules and does a character test. Any dog showing signs of aggression under the stress of being in that god-awful place would sadly be left to be PTS as there were many many more easy dogs waiting for those all too few foster homes.

OP, it sounds like you are well aware of this. If your behaviourist can't help you then I think the kindest thing would be to have your dog peacefully PTS with you stroking him.

Thank you CQ, the Texas dog situation is heart breaking. Here, as long as you have a drivers license or picture ID, you can have a dog. No checks, just $70, walk in and pick one (or more) up. They don't have the staff or finance to do more.

For those who questioned why we got a staffie x ridgeback, it's not that easy. We were told she was dalmatian x lab and found in the street so no parents to back that up. We only know her breed (25% ridgeback, 25% staffie, the rest is mixed over more than 3 generations) because we had her tested for congenital illnesses and breed at the vet's. She is 50lbs and her back just about reaches my knee. She doesn't look threatening and certainly wouldn't make it as a guard dog...

I'll keep you all posted, have an appointment with the behaviourist in a week, thanks for all your perspectives.

This is really sad, I feel for you OP, I have no idea how you must feel.
However, I think that it's like keeping a loaded weapon in the house and trusting your daughter not to touch it. It's just too dangerous, a dog of that size and those breeds would do serious damage if it attacked properly and your daughter would not be able to defend herself. You probably wouldn't be able to pull him off easily either.
All the best to you whatever you decide, just make sure that I'd you do PTS your daughter doesn't feel responsible

I'm really sorry that you are in this situation. We had to have our very well loved dog pts in the summer. He was a rescue I had had for 8 years. He had always had a nervous edge to him around strangers, especially children. He was terribly head shy when I first got him as he'd clearly been hit. We managed this behaviour well, although he had a few snaps a people. He'd go straight at their face though (big dog) :-/.
Our situation unfortunately changed when dd arrived. We managed ok until she got mobile and then he started showing 'snappy' behaviour towards her. We spent nearly £2k on specialist behavioural and pain treatment but things didn't improve. Keeping him separate made him anxious and resentful and the behaviour worse. We made the devastating decision to pts.
A 'warning' bite to the face of a small child from a large dog could be disastrous.
If you can't rehome, I agree that you may have to make tough decision.

I'd have the dog PTS. I would go gutted about it, but that's what I would do.

Children are more important than dogs.

I understand why you want to exhaust all options before PTS OP, but keep two things in mind.

The first is that the dog is getting fed up. From his perspective your DD is annoying/stressful/scary AND won't listen. From the dog's perspective he has repeatedly told her to stop and she won't listen so he may tell her off more forcefully next time.

The second is that this does not sound like a dog training issue but a child training issue. Very few dogs would tolerate this behaviour, even fewer would welcome it. Your DD would benefit from learning not to behave like this around all dogs. I appreciate this is easy to say and difficult to do but it might be worth thinking about how you will work on that as well.

Im finding the message that most dogs are very sensitive to children's cuddles very surprising. I know lots of dogs who love kids and do enjoy the cuddles and all the messing around without feeling the need to be aggressive or scared and these dogs constantly hang around the kids expecting more and more interaction. Your daughter's behaviour is normal and when other kids visit their behaviour will likely to be exactly the same and you will be risking their lives too.

Crap it's funny how you think "severely bollocking" a 6 year old is a perfectly acceptable method of learning and dicipline but you wouldn't consider severely bollocking your dog, you are a very vocal passionate believer in positive training methods.... but only for your dog??!!

Silver my child knows not to behave that way towards dogs because he's been taught the rules from an extremely early age - I had dogs before I had children and I knew DDog1 would find children difficult to cope with. He wasn't a dog I'd rehome comfortably because of his nature so right from the start management had to be an absolute priority.

The DC were taught clearly, simply and firmly that the dog rules were golden, in the same way that you probably taught your children not to play with knives and electric sockets and other potentially dangerous things. How would you react to your six year old playing with a knife?

I have not read the full thread so I don't know if anyone else has said this but....providing you can be 100% disciplined in this, what about making the dog wear a basket muzzle? It needs to be a basket so the dog can pant, vomit and drink through it. At mealtimes you supervise the dog away from the DC, take the muzzle off, feed the dog, the muzzle goes back on. The downside of this is the dog feels slightly 'on the back foot' and it's wrong to attach human emotions to them but this is better than being dead or booted out surely? They are comfortable for the dog once they get used to them. I had a similar situation to this years ago with my dog and an ex boyfriends DCs. Within a week she got used to wearing the muzzle and it actually settled her down a lot as I guess it was making her the underdog and dogs generally don't want to be top dog but just want to know where they stand to feel reassured within a pack. This may be the answer but you must be 100% rigid in the discipline of putting it on after meals. You are 100% with using a seatbelt so it can be done.