Dog bit dd last night ...

[butterfliesinmytummy]

I have posted before about our 18 month old rescue dog. She is ridgeback x staffie and we've had her since she was 8 weeks old - she was a stray in a shelter. She has a very high play drive and loads of energy - I'm a sahm who likes walking a lot! We think we have done everything right - we crate trained, we use positive reinforcement, we did puppy training, we exercise her a lot, we train on a regular basis (her basic commands are super sharp) and she's a smart dog.

She has snapped at and bitten (without breaking skin) people she doesn't know in daycare before (she goes one half day a week) and we recently worked with a behaviourist for several weeks. He did several sessions with us, working on training, giving her more confidence and advised the daycare people on how to handle her, to give her a wide berth (avoiding triggers). We don't walk off the lead as it's not allowed where we live (USA) but we give people a wide berth when we are walking too (mainly because she tends to jump up).

Dd2 is 6 and adores the dog. She has been taught not to look into the dog's eyes, not to cuddle her, not to disturb her when she's sleeping, eating etc but she "forgets" and cuddles the dog, which I can tell the dog is uncomfortable with. Last night my back was turned and all of a sudden the dog growled and dd screamed. The dog didn't break her skin but it left a red mark on her cheek that I could see hours later. I am 99% sure that dd2 was hugging the dog or staring at her etc because the mantra in our house is "leave the dog alone". She is constantly "on" the dog, hugging her, chatting to her, playing with her feet, kissing her.....

I am worried that this is a warning, the dog has form for this and I have no idea what to do next, or what will happen next. Dd2 was wrong in the way she was hugging the dog and we have had discussions time and time again about being respectful and only petting the dog under certain circumstances etc. This has really shaken dd2 and I'm hoping that she has learned a lesson but I am really upset and unsure where to go from here.... I don't think I can rehome a mixed breed that bites and nearly all shelters here are kill shelters, there is a real problem with overpopulation of dogs. Help!

I don't think severely bollocking my child is ever my intention, just as severely bollocking my dog isn't either. Both will do things that are out of character and both deserve to be treated with kindness and respect and not verbal aggression, I was just really surprised at how differently you seem to view them.

It should be so simple, all your DD has to do is not hug the dog. How hard can this be?
Nothing that's been said suggests this is a vicious dog that'll launch an attack from across the room if someone glances at it.

The difference here Silver is that (and I've no special knowledge of children and learning so I may well be wrong, but speaking from the perspective of my child) at 6 my child knew right from wrong and knew not to behave that way. A dog never knows right from wrong and never knows that certain behaviours are not allowed because they haven't got the capacity to learn that. They're a difference between teaching a child how to behave around dogs and then reacting with anger when they willfully choose dangerous behaviour. I wouldn't bollock a two year old for the same behaviour because they can't be expected to manage their own behaviour to that degree.

This is not a nice dog being severely provoked by a child. This is a dog who has "snapped at and bitten people she doesn't know in day care" and is now showing aggression to a 6 yr old who is offering affection.

This dog is not suitable as a family pet, it should not be rehomed it should be PTS. the OP has only one question to answer "is this dog suitable as a family pet?" The answer seems to be "no" so the next question is "what is the kindest thing to do to the dog now?" As she is in Texas, and shelters would destroy a dog with this background, she needs to take responsibility and have the dog PTS with her there and as little trauma to the dog as possible.

*there's

I think it's important that we as parents do treat dogs as if they're potentially dangerous. It shouldn't be "don't hug the dog because the dog doesn't like it" (and whoever said that plenty dogs do is wrong - plenty dogs tolerate it and that is not the same thing by a long stretch) it should be "don't hug the dog because dogs have big sharp strong teeth and if one day you hurt it by accident you will get hurt yourself.

I love dogs, I own dogs, I work with dogs. They're potentially dangerous and if my children share the home with a danger then I expect them to behave safely once they are at an age to be able to understand the rules. It's non negotiable, just like crossing a road safely, wearing a seat belt, not using the hairdryer in the bath and eating dishwasher tablets. They will get a row.

OP, it sounds as if you are doing all the right things. It sounds that perhaps your dd is the one who needs more training - as well as your dog. Your behaviourist's idea to train your whole family is a good one. Good luck.

I don't agree with you Crap that bollocking a child helps them learn - there are better way to parent, a teacher at school will not be allowed to bollock your 6 year old yet they will teach them. Interesting too how the queen of positive training, Karen Pryer suggests that she has a more harmonious home and better behaved children because she teaches her children using positively methods. I would not have a dog in the house who was such a high risk to my children, regardless of how well trained my children were, it's irresponsible.

Crap you sound like you begrudgingly give a home to your kids....

Crap's analogy with dogs and knives is a good one. It's pretty clear that this child has not been taught to treat her dog with respect. I think the frothing about how you teach your child is irrelevant here - that's an individual parenting decision.

I'm sure all parents have taught their children not to play with knives, fire or other dangers. They should be taught to treat dogs with the same respect as any other dangerous object. This is a horribly stressed dog reacting to a child that is provoking him. He did not break the skin because he chose not to - this dog is doing everything he can to communicate his anxiety and tell the child to back off
The child needs to listen. In the meantime use child gates and give your dog a safe place away from your child

Why should this dog be killed because a child won't listen?

The op has probably spent thousands on this dog. and put in hours of work. If it was as simple as telling the kid not to go near it she wouldn't have bothered.

I also believe the op has done her best with the dd. She's not stupid.

For whatever reason the dd just doesn't get it ok. There may or may not be reasons for that which haven't been figured out yet. but I believe from how much effort she's put in with the dog that she applies that's sense and logic and effort to teaching the dd too.

I don't think. It's her fault the dd doesn't understand. so the dog can't stay can it.

There is also currently no where then dog can go. a shelter is a death sentence.

and the op can't hang on indefinitely. that much is obvious.

i think those saying about the dd an rehoming are delusional tbh as if the op hasn't tried. your over simplifying it

I'm afraid you can't blame your DD for this. My friend had a dog that she adored. It bit her. On the face. She explained it away - it had been her fault. Then a year or so later it bit her toddler daughter (badly). Now that? She thinks it was her fault. Because she should have taken action after the first attack. Luckily her DD isn't scarred for life - but she (my friend) probably is, mentally. She has been crucified by guilt. If she could out the clock back, she would, and she would re home her dog (who was out down after biting her daughter). It was a desperately sad situation. Don't let your situation get to the point where your dog has to be put down. Re home it now.

He did not break the skin because he chose not to - this dog is doing everything he can to communicate his anxiety and tell the child to back off

Well put SunShine the dog had probably exhausted all his other methods of telling the child that he didn't want to be hugged.

did the dog exhaust all other methods of communication when he bit the OTHER PEOPLE when he was in day care? read the OP, this is the latest in a string of problems. This dog is not safe.

How bad would the bite/attack have to be before you took it seriously. Whether you rehome or PTS I don't believe that you should keep this dog in your household anymore. Yes children have to have a certain level of respect for pets, BUT you should be able to trust your dog would never retaliate. This dog has, and can't be trusted round children. It's a choice between child or the dog.

Many people misread a dog's body language.
This photo was the top one in an article that did the rounds on FB on how cute dogs and children are together:
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/5d/4a/19/5d4a19088907494b00142b666b3624ca.jpg

The dog is clrearly saying he doesn't like this, but the majority of people who saw it thought it was very cute. It is much safer to teach kids no cuddles, no kisses, no pulling, allow the dog to leave, offer a hand to sniff first, etc.

drop I have two spaniels, both with loving and gentle natures. The have never ever given me any reason to think they would retaliate, but to trust that they would NEVER do so would be naive in the extreme. They are dogs after all.

I agree re re-homing though, just making the point that you can't ever trust any dog never to retaliate

It is unfair to expect a dog to never retaliate - would you not defend yourself if someone scared or hurt you? Ok you might do it with words (growls, body language) and that would generally work but you may well resort to force and lash out if you were in pain, worried, just at the end of your tether.

My dog bit my DD, as i had said earlier, the poor thing was a rescue with a history of issues so the assumption was he wasn't safe to keep. The poor bastard had bone cancer and my DD had trodden on his foot, we didn't know this at the time but can you imagine the pain he must have been in? Thankfully we kept him long enough for him to spend the final weeks with us.

I think the issue here is exactly as people have said, this dog has displayed aggression in the past and there are too many alarm bells for me. There may be a home out there for him, but in reality there are so many dogs WITHOUT issues wanting homes that are being PTS for want of a home that his chances don't sound great. I would hate to be in the OP's position as she obviously cannot keep her dog, in a way i was spared that decision but i cannot begin to describe the guilt i felt letting my dog go and that was when it was becuase he was suffering.

Booboo, that picture is chilling :(

drop there's a very dangerous implication in your post. When you say

you should be able to trust your dog would never retaliate. This dog has, and can't be trusted round children

you are implying that dogs fall into two categories: those which are a danger to children and those which aren't.

That concept is the single reason that thousands of people get bitten every year. All dogs present a risk, and yes of course a dog which has already shown that it has the capacity to bite is a greater risk (although the reason it's bitten in the first place is usually because the humans have ignored all of its polite communication).

But every single dog which has bitten someone was once a dog which never retaliates.

If you had any idea how frequently I see really dangerous interactions between dogs and children, then dismissed by parents because "she lets them do anything", you would understand my anger. Most parents can be helped to see how dangerous it is but once in a while I'll be asked to put those poor, tolerant, patient dogs to sleep because a straw broke the camel's back. It's needless and avoidable.

Dog has to go, and fast so that probably means pts.
And wait until your daughter is much older before getting another. She clearly doesn't understand how to behave with dogs.

This dog is not the right dog for you it would probably be a perfectly good pet in a house with just adults or adults and older kidd but as it is unhappy in close quarters with your daughter it is not the dog for you. It is just too risky that your daughter or one of her friends could easily get into a position where they could be bitten. If she doesnt leave the dog in peace then it is only a matter of time. Some dogs are comfortable with kids, some remove themselves from the situation, some bite. You know that this will happen again, it is just a matter of when. Rehome, and think carefully about the type of dog that will fit in with your family.

A few people rightly called me out on the wording of my last post.

I said: you should be able to trust your dog would never retalitate

and I agree, that was too much of a generalised statement which is ultimately unachievable. I agree that you shouldn't expect your dog to never retaliate if pushed too far. I think dogs and children should be very closely supervised. It's not fair that some people allow their children to irritate and wind up dogs with unacceptable behaviour. I agree that some point each and every one of them was a dog that didn't bite. And that you could never ever ever be 100% positive that a dog would never bite, because they are animals.

What I think I really meant was you need to have a certain amount of trust that your child and dog are safe together, and that once it's bitten her there is absolutely no way to trust it wouldn't do it again.

Again agree with crap and starfish. Your DD cannot be trusted, for whatever reason she is not listening to you. She cannot be trusted around any dogs tbh. Remove this dog, he is not to be trusted around your DD and vice versa.

Dont get such a big dog next time and I see you allow your dog on the sofa, we have a rottie and would never let her onto the sofas or even upstairs. It gives them the message that they are just as important as us.

I have a niece like this. She has been told time and time again to not approach the dog when sleeping, or to go to her crate, or get near her face. I found her trying to take something out of the dogs mouth having let her out of the crate. I went bananas and her mother had a go at me and said that dogs should be trusted completely around children...

I couldn't agree more.

Agree with drop that is. Not Hillingdon.