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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

My puppy is in her first season

199 replies

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 16:36

She is 9 months old. Is it quite late for a first season? I was expecting it at about 6 months.

I will be breeding her with my other dog but not on her first season.

How long do you think it will be till her next season?

This is the first time breeding. I'm going to try it once and if it works out quite well I'll continue.

OP posts:
IAmBooyhoo · 15/03/2012 23:35

yep, you didn't seem to get it the first time.

i notice you ignored my suggestion to find a good breeder and get some hands on experience of what it means to do it right though.

NoMoreMarbles · 15/03/2012 23:35

im going to step away from this thread now i thinkHmm

just a quick question...and this is a serious question not a take the piss one...midori you breed dogs? where did you start out to gain the knowledge you have? surely advice of this kind would be invaluable to breeders starting out (everyone starts somewhere afterall)...OP has said REPEATEDLY she is considering breeding but isnt sure...when a person starts on a new hobby such as breeding for pleasure etc they have to start to learn about their chosen breed from the beginning (it isnt inherantly built into the brain of the breeder).

my dad bred german shepherds for police force training (KC reg and excellent bloodlines etc) and our bitch was a family pet to begin with. my dad was thoroughly mentored for 2/3 years before he would put our bitch to mate but he started with a love of german shepherds but not much knowledge of the breed... he made no money from this...not a penny(though the chosen force paid for vaccinations and vet bills and we had to use their vets) as the pups were reared by us as a family to 10/12 weeks and then sent to train with the police force both in england and scotland. our bitch had her first litter (8 pups) at 3/4yo and second litter about 2 years later which she had 13 pups and was quite ill so dad decided to stop at that point. he did keep one of the pups and bred a litter from her (5 pups)but she was not happy about this at all and was very mopey so again he stopped at the one litter. my dad started out with a love of the breed and thats it...

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:35

Both parents of both of my dogs lived there too.

I don't see them as BYB its as simple as that.

They do care about their breed offered good advice etc

What else do you want me to say??

OP posts:
D0oinMeCleanin · 15/03/2012 23:36

She also ignored lots of questions about what she would do to ensure her pups went to good homes, Booy.

Because she has no answers to them

Can't think why she would chose to ignore these questions? Hmm

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:38

I haven't ignored that all booyhoo but I'd rather listen to someone who doesn't use the same attitude towards me that you do.

OP posts:
IAmBooyhoo · 15/03/2012 23:39

"Both parents of both of my dogs lived there too."

which makes it even more likely they are BYBs!! have you read dooins quote about what a BYB is? the bit about people breeding the two dogs they own rather than finding the best match for their dog? they aren't doing it for the enhancement of breed they are doing it because it is convenient and cheap. you bought of BYBs.

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:39

When did I ignore that doin?

I said that I would like to go to there houses.

OP posts:
midori1999 · 15/03/2012 23:41

Swimming, I don't think you really know enough about dogs to determine what a BYB is. If you do, it's certainly not coming across in this thread.

Nomoremarbles, I have posted about that on the previous page. It was a very long and drawn out process and the breeding wasn't my initial intention at all.

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:42

Ok I bought off BYB.

I still own 2 very lovely dogs.

OP posts:
IAmBooyhoo · 15/03/2012 23:42

what attitude? frustration that someone who very obviously hasn't the faintest idea what theyre doing is considering sticking tehir two dogs together and selling the byproduct?

really think about why people have been hard on you here? i get that you are defensive. it would be a nice idea to have your own dogs' cute little puppies but you have a responsibility to your dogs and any future ones you create. think about it and listen to teh people here who do this properly. FWIW i dont see how you could lose out by speaking in person to a good breeder and finding out what it's all about. i dont know why you would be so dismissive of the idea.

midori1999 · 15/03/2012 23:42

D0oin, I think I might be in trouble actually as I don't have any specialist interest in cocker spaniels either....

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/03/2012 23:43

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 15-Mar-12 20:19:41

How would you know that they won't be used for Badger baiting? The buyers are hardly going to rock up your door step and admit it.

How are you going to advertise them to attract responisble owners who are looking for a responsible breeder?

What sort of things do you look out for and ask during a homecheck?

I assume you have rescue contacts you can get in touch with to ensure that no potential owner has been banned from keeping pets for cruelty or are looking for bait for dog fights or wish to continously breed from your pup?

What will happen if a potential owner cannot keep a puppy five years down the line? Will you take it back or will it end up in the pound waiting to be pts?

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/03/2012 23:44

Grin @ Midori. All the other links were very American.

midori1999 · 15/03/2012 23:44

Swimming, no one at all is saying your dogs are anything but lovely, I'm sure they really are.

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:44

Midouri

just because people don't show dogs doesn't mean they don't know abything about them.

some breeds I'm cluless. JRT and boxers I'd like to say I'm quite well up on because I've owned both in my life.

OP posts:
IAmBooyhoo · 15/03/2012 23:45

Grin@ mid.

D0oinMeCleanin · 15/03/2012 23:45

Arf! I've owned many, many breeds of dogs throughout my life. It does not make me an expert on breeding them.

IAmBooyhoo · 15/03/2012 23:47

"JRT and boxers I'd like to say I'm quite well up on because I've owned both in my life."

ut you didn't know if it was normal for a JRT to go into season at 9 months and you didn't know they couldn't be KC registered? Hmm

i would query your definition of 'quite well up on'

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 15/03/2012 23:47

Your're right I didn't amswer all your interrigation questions

but if you read back I did answer a couple.

I have already said I'm going to find things out. Hence my initial question.

OP posts:
midori1999 · 15/03/2012 23:53

I'm sorry, but there are some thing that unless you show you won't ever learn. The personalities of each individual dog, not just what is written on paper, health problem or temperament problems within certain lines that can't be tested for, what the offspring of certain dogs or bitches look like, what characteristics certain dogs pass on, even if they don't have them themselves (things like a tendency to long backs, low set tails, poor or good movement). You get to hear the rumours and gossip about certain dogs and that can be important. if you show you get to see the dogs and unless you see them in person then you don't really know about them. If you don't show, how Fo you even know your dog is a good example of the breed?

Breeding dogs is about much more than looking at a pedigree written on a piece of paper. It's about much more than looking at your dogs and knowing they are lovely.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 15/03/2012 23:58

Even stepping away from the BYB argument OP, the main consideration here is WHY you want to breed, knowing that it will allmost certainly be in some way detrimental to your bitch's health. Even if all goes well, pregnancy takes a huge physiological toll on any animal, and there is no benefit to that animal.

In the last few months my experiences with breeding bitches have included:

2 C-sections- one with live puppies (minus one) and the other sadly with none, in that case the bitch was lucky to survive and needed a hysterectomy.

Puppies with cleft palate that had to be euthanased at a few days old (from an experienced and concientious breeder)

A litter of 6 pups that died one by one, breaking the owners hearts (one survived)

A lovely home-bred puppy that died under the anaesthetic to try to fix a congenital problem Sad

A litter where two of the pups, whose owners were delighted with them at 1st vaccine, have been passed on to someone else within weeks

A litter where the dad, albeit lovely, had entropion (an eye abnormality) and subsequently also turned out to have a (possibly congenital) endocrine imbalance, and who died befor he was even 3- here's hoping HE hasn't passed anything on to those pups.

Add to that the number of false pregnancies (distressing for bitch and owner) and emergency ovariohysterectomies due to life-threatening womb infection and you possibly begin to understand why I personally would never put my bitch through it, and had her spayed early on.

It's easy to say it won't happen to you, but it happens to many. Most people mean well, they really do, but they aren't knowledgeable enough or aware enough, and feel terrible when it all goes wrong. That's why I would try to deter anyone from breeding unless they really have the future of the breed as their core reason for taking those risks.

SwimmingThroughSickLullabies · 16/03/2012 00:00

I understand that midouri but all us owners that don't show their dogs aren't cluless idiots either.

I'm just going to reitterate what I have already said.

I do intend to do all my research and find things out.

I'm not just going to chuck them both in the garden and let them get on with it.

I asked one question. I have lots. I do know not ask them on here though clearly.

OP posts:
Joolyjoolyjoo · 16/03/2012 00:10

NoMoreMarbles- "when a person starts on a new hobby such as breeding for pleasure etc they have to start to learn about their chosen breed from the beginning (it isnt inherantly built into the brain of the breeder)."

Breeding dogs is NOT a hobby, any more than I had children as a hobby! It's a huge commitment, and to do it well you really do need to be immersed in the breed, and that usually involves showing, and getting to know examples of the breed/ other breeders, and, as midori said, hearing the gossip and the back-stories. Most good breeders start showing their own dog and spending weekends going up and down the country to shows. They learn what makes a good or bad example of their chosen breed. Eventually they feel confident enough to try to enhance the breed by carefully selecting compatible parent dogs and to keep a pup to show themselves. It's more a way of life than a hobby- and it costs a fortune!

midori1999 · 16/03/2012 00:15

Swimming, at least now you realise that you got your dogs from BYB's.

You came on saying you were going to breed your dogs, to try it once and see h ow it went. Not that you were considering it. The fact your dogs were from BYB's means you shouldn't breed from them. The will have been bred with no care for anything (that is not to say the breeders weren't nice people or well meaning) and as JRT's aren't registered with the KC, their pedigrees are meaningless as they cannot be verified.

If you really want to breed dogs, my suggestion would be to find a breed you like that is KC registered, find out as much as you can about it, speak to lots of breeders, find a breeder you like and ask if you buy a puppy from them to show will they help you learn about showing it and consider lifting breeding restrictions should your dog turn out to be good enough and pass all the relevant health tests. Then hope the puppy you buy does turn out to be good enough and pass the tests. Our youngest bitch was bought from one of the top breeders in the breed, did really well in the showring, passed her eye test (hadn't had her hips done yet) and then started having seizures. No ones fault, something completely random and we still don't know the cause. All my dogs are my pets first and foremost anyway, but I can't help but be disappointed. She is such a lovely, lovely dog in every way and a very god example of the breed, I would have loved a puppy from her. Instead we'll wait until we can have another and get another puppy from the same breeder.

midori1999 · 16/03/2012 00:17

I agree that breeding is not a hobby. I suppose it's more of the by product of a hobby, which for me is owning/walking/training/loving, working and showing my dogs. (admittedly, we don't much work them these days)

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