When does a dog become easy?

[Solo2]

Sorry - me again - with Rollo, golden retriever aged 10 months....and yes, a similar question to several past ones too but....

He's lovely. He's gorgeous. He's soppy and - massively demanding. My entire life revolves around his needs and some parts of every single day are just impossible - like from 4pm till 6pm when DCs back from school needing supper/HW support and Rollo needs maximum attention/play and another walk.

Just had to pay his lovely trainer for another 24 hrs respite as I'm still shatteringly tired. Not dog's fault - but my own busy lifestyle (solo mum running f/t business). At w/e, it was SO full on with him! Even after a massive 1.5 hr walk, he only napped for 45 mins and was rearing to go again just as I'd sat down to tea with my DCs.

If I don't attend to him when he's needy/bored/lively, he chews the doors/cupboard handles, snatches anything he can reach off surfaces or rushes round pushing a toy up against me, to 'make' me play with him. If all else fails, he whines v loudly or barks - especially if I confine him to the kitchen so we can eat a meal. If I let him be with us, I effectively have to supervise him ALL the time and can't leave him alone with the DCs.

I end up sititng on the kitchen floor with him, holding a nylabone for him to chew as he rests his lovely but terribly demanding furry self across my lap - or throw a ball for him up and down the room - not ideal, as he slips and slides on the wooden floor.

I walk him on lead from 6.40am till 7.15am but then he has to settle alone whilst i do school run and work till 11am. I play with/feed and toilet him from 11am till 12.00pm and then he again has to settle from 12.00pm till 2.00pm whilst I work. I walk him/run with him from 2.05pm till 2.45pm and then he has to settle again till 4pm when I'm home from school run.

So I can understand why he's really needy from 4pm onwards as he hasn't had hrs and hrs of input (although I know loads of other dogs who get a lot less exercise yet seem much more settled). But this is SUCH a busy time and w/es are even harder as the DCs are around but if he sees/ hears them, he doesn't even then do the settling for naps as he does on one of my working days.

So I'm pulled between dogwalks/play/training/toileting and DCs general needs and when everyone is resting/sitting down, that's my only time to catch up on jobs! I miss meals or eat on the go. I never sleep beyond 4.45am unless Rollo is having a sleepover with his trainer.

I am MASSIVELY relieved when he's not here - but realise it shouldn't be like this at all. At his trainers, he mooches with her other dogs, naps, never jumps up to surfaces or chews anything but nylabones (independently). Basically, she says he's incredibly easy. We've looked at why he's so different there and it may be cos she's got such a relaxed lifestyle and 3 other dogs to keep him company and can also do his main walk earlier in the day. Obviously, she's much more expert with dogs than I am too.

But please does this get any easier - or will it be this way at home till Rollo is an old man?

Mine are fairly easy
They are 3 and 5 years
But my Springer (the younger one) has always been quite easy
My collie will never be easy around other dogs.

I think you need to teach him to entertain himself a bit more tbh. He sounds very demanding. Have you tried ignoring him for a bit when he whines for attention?

Yes, I sometime just do have to ignore him but he'll then whine/bark or jump up to things or chew.

I should have added, BTW, that he also gets a 3rd walk - with DCs in tow - from 6pm till 7pm - often offlead but also maybe sometimes onlead.

So he's getting around 2.5hrs walk and/or run a day which is possibly MORE than he should at his age - but I do this just to try to keep his energy level down and get him interested and not too bored.

But some of my friends have dogs that are only walked once a day for about 45 mins and yet are fine to mooch and settle the entire rest of the time.

I don't know what you want us to say Solo. I don't mean to be harsh but dogs need attention But not what you give Rolo - in your other threads advice has been given it doesn't seem you have taken it on board. Nearly everyone said you were giving Rolo too much time.

You are being a fool to give him all that attention really why on earth or you holding onto the end of a nylabone when he chews it? Who is training who in your house.

The reason he is different at the trainers is that her attitude to him is different. She is chilled relaxed around him etc and he picks up on her mood - the more you worry about it all the worse it will be.

It will not hurt Rolo to be ignored - it will do him good. Take him for a walk teach him to settle until lunchtime etc. In the afternoon give him a bone to chew in a restricted area on his own. Second walk when it fits in with you and he should be chilled until bed time.

When you are eating he goes into his bed and ignored - simple!

I honestly think that it is not Rolo that has to change it is you - if you don't then I think he will be like this until he is an old man.

All of the above was said to help you and I really hope I am not coming across as grumpy or aggressive I do not want that but you have to make it work for you so trying to help in my say it as it is way

I'd say you need to stop being Entertainments Manager tbh!

so really what minimuu has said! Of all the dogs we have and have had the two shepherds are neediest and tend to follow me about, in case I make off, or do something that might need proper GSD supervision and the labs lab/grx tend to not be arsed!

In my breed (std poodles) they are much easier and more settled by the time they are four, and perfect by about eight lol, but it is only wishing their lives away. Each stage has it's delights and frustrations, current pup is nearly a year old and more settled than a couple of months ago but was much easier at six months!

I have followed the delightful Rollo and know how hard it is for you, but it does get better! Dogs read our routines so well that they anticipate walkies long before us and built up excitable energy. While I am a great beleiver in routine with this pup we haven't had such a defined walking routine and therefore she never comes to expect a walk, they just happen randomly through the day or one day a massive one and the next a smaller one and she is very settled not over excited with this routine. She does however have her moments of madness bounching from one sofa to another in a wall of death style which I do laugh at but we have no little ones now to worry about getting flattened.

You will hear us all say it gets easier, but that is no consolation while you are waiting for it! I would say that he will be a different dog at three than he is now.

I don't think it sounds like your dog will ever be easy. You should give yourself permission to rehome him if you think that's best. Not saying you should - just don't feel bad if that's what you decide. Good luck!

We had a dog like Rolo and it never got better and we had to rehome him at 3 as we couldn't cope with it. He demanded attention every second of every day, 2 hr walks would earn you 40 minutes peace and then he'd be back at it. He was a lovely, obedient dog but not designed to be a family pet (he was a lab) He needed continual stimulation and emotionally it was killing me.. there was NO down time. In the end I had to spend a long time on bedrest and couldn't meet his needs at all, he was a complete nightmare and so we rehomed him. I know it sounds callous but it was such a weight off my mind I can't tell you.

I think some dogs are just hard work. I've always had dogs but none like the last one.. just thinking about it brings me out in a cold sweat.

I think, in all honesty, that you are adding to his neediness. Yes young dogs are hard work, you took on a lot. You may have felt it was what you wanted but now reality has struck.
back to basics.It does get better, but you need to stop this constant attention

I may get flamed for this but I have a boisterous collie cross age 3 and at certain times I put him in the back of the car for a while so he can calm down (I tell him he's guarding the car) and i can get on with key activities . Then I let him out and we go for a walk. This doesn't happen every day -but very useful in the half an hour before school time- he isn't upset by it at all!

campocara not flamed at all but a fantastic response to over stimulated dog (of course as long as car is cool etc etc etc). It would calm him down, teach him to be happy alone and give you time to get on with things. win win.

All my dogs regardless of breed (so some hyper collies in the mix) get a walk in the morning early back for breakfast and then crated (If young) or told to settle in their beds for at least two hours or so. It brings down the adrenaline, relaxes them and you then have a calm dog for the rest of the day. However this has to be trained into them. The collies for example would just never stop unless made to do so however they are happier for being asked to relax.

I too think you're adding to his neediness - I can perfectly understand why, with all the health problems you went through with him (this was the dog with the chronically runny bum, right? ) but to borrow a favourite AIBU phrase, you've made a rod for your own back.

Does he have a crate? Or can you fit a stair gate on the kitchen door? Teaching him to be alone (but within sight and sound of the family) and quiet for short periods will be very beneficial and with the amount of exercise he's getting it is not in the slightest bit cruel.

The trainer achieves this simply because she expects it - the dogs get a walk, they come home, they are fed, they settle. It helps of course that she has other dogs in this routine, he will take cues from them, but he can also take his cues from you.

For what it's worth it does improve generally the older they get, mine was an utter nightmare until 12 months (husky, to be expected), made huge improvements over the next year and now at two and a half simply mooches and sleeps between activities. She still has a crate, is never locked in it but will go there as taught to have quiet time.

Solo I'm in a similar situation to you, two young DC's, one with ASD, lone parent and working full time from home with a six month old lab X puppy. I have read a lot of your threads and I'm sorry I really do think you bring a lot on yourself. You need to get Rollo into your routine waking up at the crack of sparrow fart to let the dog out is ridiculous; I go to bed between 10.00 and midnight, puppy goes out for a wee before I go to bed and I get up at 7.00, he sleeps in his crate all that time, he always has done. The minute I go downstairs I take him outside for a wee and then I bring him in and feed him while the DCs are eating breakfast he then does his own thing while we're brushing teeth and getting ready for school. He goes in the back of the car for the school run and then out in the woods on the way home for a 40 min walk off lead before going home. I then have to work, so he gets ignored and he settles down in the dining room with the radio and has a snooze. I check him every 30 - 40 minutes for a wee break because he has the bladder a size of a pea.

Lunchtime we do 20 minutes training while I eat my lunch on the go and then he plays with his toys or mooches about. Sometimes he wants to go outside, he can get out of the garden so he's on a long chain with the back door to the house open if he wants to come indoors and access to water. He's happy to sit out there watching the world for a couple of hours.

I take him for a walk for 40 mins again just after school run and the DCs come with us. When I'm making dinner he's left to his own devices but DCs are around and they take him outside for the toilet. They don't really interact with him but are just there in the room. When we're eating he eats his dinner.

In the evening when I'm downstairs he'll bring toys to me I'll lie on the sofa and drink wine while watching TV and lob a ball or pull on a tuggy toy till he gets bored and then he snoozes.

He had to adapt to us otherwise life would be impossible. I really do think you need to have in place some kind of strict routine - my puppy knows that when I stand up at a certain time of night, turn the TV off etc, that it's bedtime and he goes out quickly and then straight into his crate - no arguments.

I wish you a lot of luck, all of your emails read like you're not enjoying your dog which is ever so sad, I've never heard of anyone sending their dog away for respite before.

I work from home, so from puppyhood, my dog's had to learn that between 9-1, and then 2-5, I'm not available for toy chucking/stroking/fussing, etc. Both dogs get a long walk either before breakfast or at lunchtime, and he has nylabones to chew (you really don't have to hold one end for him) or toys to play with, but apart from the odd ear-rub or quick chat if I get up to make coffee, that's all the interaction he'll get. Generally both of them curl up wherever I'm working and doze.

Rolo's still a puppy, though. Sorry if you've mentioned it before, but do you crate him at all during the day? Part of the crate thing is teaching the dog that it's safe to switch off and zone out - something Rolo might need to learn?

Solo

I'm sorry you are still finding it all hard, I followed your puppy threads as our dogs are the same age. I take it the diarrhoea has settled, which is a good thing.

I'm not a dog expert, this is our first but I have treated ours like the dcs, they need to learn to play on their own, to learn how to settle and when you need some space. I was wondering why he can't be alone with the dcs?

Our lab loves to play when someone wants to play with him, but I have taught our dcs to ignore him when we want him to settle, so no eye contact, no use of his name or words that he knows. During meals we cannot mention him, except as The Dark Lord or He Who Cannot Be Named, or look at him. As a result he sits in his basket or under the table while we eat.

He gets one good walk per day, just over an hour on and off lead with a swim, but when it suits me in my day. Sometimes dd (13) or dh will take him again in the evening, but only if they feel like it. He can go in the yard whenever he likes.

I also often cook in advance, so that the pre dinner time is more relaxing. Today I made something in the slow cooker, which will do for two meals. Our dcs (13,11 and 9) do their homework without supervision, dd (6) needs reading time but this happens at bed time. I would help if they were stuck with something. I think yours are quite young or need extra help, though?

You have a lot on your plate, but it sounds like you are very anxious generally. Some people get a sort of agitated depression, are you generally down, or do you enjoy things and look forward to the future? Why are you waking so early? If its the dog ignore until later, he will learn in a week that barking is not working.

Do you need to see your GP, get your bloods done for tiredness?

With the destructive chewing, is Rollo interested in kongs?. I freeze them with yoghurt and kibble in, and if I'm out for a few hours I make sure he has one to entertain him.

Anyway, I hope you get some good advice on this thread, but if all else fails you could try and find him an alternative home. It sounds like you are exhausting yourself at present.

Actually, on re-reading, that makes my poor dogs sound horribly neglected, and of course I don't ignore them while I'm pottering around, but what I was trying to say was that my body language during that time is: 'yes, I'll give you a tummy rub, but I'm not going to start a long game of fetch.' They're both fine with that, and they get lots of fussing when I've finished for the day.

I have big sympathy, though - my work rate has never really recovered since i got the dogs, and I don't even have children to add into the mix. It's just one of those things - Rollo will take up as much time as you'll give him. You have to decide how much time that is. It's not cruel to ignore him for part of your day, and so long as he's with you, he'll adapt. At the moment, he probably thinks you're the one who needs entertaining, and he's just obliging!

OK. Thanks. I think I need to hear again that I'm not depriving Rollo but rather over giving to him because this is my first dog and I really had and have no idea what a dog (as opposed to a cat) needs. I'd heard so much on this forum about puppies and dogs needing stimulation and attention - like toddlers - and I still feel a bit lost with how to interpret this in terms of everyday life.

Yes, I know you've advised me before, Minimu - and it's always really good advice and I take it on board and then, what seems to happen, is that Rollo's behaviour seems to 'demand' attention and then it all slides into chaos again. Like, what do you do if you're just about to sit down for a meal, for eg and dog starts to leap up in the kitchen at surfaces and snatches a piece of cutlery of a plastic bag (can't always get time to have clear surfaces)? Presumably, I have to then go back in to him (he's behind a dog gate in there and we're in sight in the room next door with door open), take thing away, hand him something he CAN have and then return to my meal, by which time he's jumped up again and so on? Do I shut him in his crate? Won't that mean he associates his crate with punishment?

What do I do if he barks and/or whines non-stop and we don't have time to give him attention? Do we let him go on and on (this upsets DS2 with Asps traits)?

What do I do if he's being allowed to wander round whilst we're doing other stuff nearby and he begins to push a toy against my legs and if he gets no response, he then starts to snatch things off surfaces? Again, I can't ignore this as he might eat something he mustn't like plastic etc or destroy DCs stuff? Do I lock him back in kitchen and/or crate?

If the amount of exercise he's getting is enough, WHY do I get the impression he's bored/understimulated/lonely? Is this just my own, naive interpretation of him, projected onto him but not really true, objectively?

I really value advice here and I'm sorry if I sound repetitive and as if I'm not following through. There always seems to be a reason why i can't ignore him - either cos DCs get upset if I don't DO something to stop his noise or behaviours - or - as he's still gradually weaning off antibiotics - I'm unsure if he's whining/barking as he needs the toilet and beginning to develop tummy trouble again? At the w/e, he'd been difficult even before his 1.5 hrs walk and on the walk got 2 massive poos. So I was left thinking - oh dear, he'd been needing the toilet, poor thing. I should have responded to him much earlier and not ignored him.

It's this kind of thing that makes it difficult for me to consistently ignore his challenging behaviour.

Yes, it is ridiculous to need respite care and it costs £40 a day too! I really need to NOT need time away from him but there's such a huge contrast between when he's in the house and when he's away and yes, I don't really 'enjoy' him, although I feel committed to him and responsible for him.

A dog lives with you on your terms ( they should of course be very attractive ones) They need to learn not to be destructive and to settle on their own and to stick to a routine - I'd agree with the advice above that you need to distance yourself from him and encourage him to learn you are not the fount of all fun. I have owned two very hyer demanding dogs in the past, I wasn't the best equipped to cope with them but once they got to about 8 they were wonderfully well behaved - one lived to 16 and one 17 - I did think that all that surfeit of energy in their youth perhaps helped them stay lively and fit later on.

The dog I have now came to us "ready made" from a rescue centre - he is wonderfully behaved and has lovely manners, much easier than starting with a puppy!

OrignialChristmasPoster....just read your message. I take the DCs to school at 7.30am so before then have to fit in Rollo's morning walk. This is why I get up v early, to shower/dress and then start getting DCs up and then once they're starting showers etc, I take Rollo out on my own but have to be back by 7.15am latest to chivvy on the DCs as we leave v early. Given my early start, I end up going to bed by the time they do - around 9pm - so Rollo gets crated by 8pm. So I guess if you shift an ordinary day routine about 2 hrs ahead, I'm waking at 5am and sleeping by around 9.30pm/10pm.

I'm not at all 'donw' - but am definiely having a stressful life, juggling DCs/ work and dog - but all of my own making and underlying everything, feel v v contented with what I'm lucky enough to have. I just need more time really but monay and time seems always in conflict!

Rollo isn't really into kongs, as he can only eat his prescribed sensitive tummy kibble. I stuff a kong with this and soak it and then freeze it but either Rollo takes 2 mins to extract the contents or - most likely - gets the easy bit out - and then abandons the kong completely!

I'm 'shattered' because since getting Rollo, I've added 2 hrs + brisk exercise to my busy days, every single day and because I never ever ever get 'down' time for me. I never ever watch TV/ sit in the sititng room (never even go in there!), rarely get to sit down for meals. Today, having paid for dog care, I wokred and had my first 2 hrs off in this last yr I think to go into town and start Xmas shopping for DCs. But again, it was a mad rush and barely got done what needs to be done. Rollercoaster - or rather Rollo-coaster - starts again at 7pm when he comes back tonight and must rush down now and make DCs supper.

The major way to deal with the examples you give is prevention.

So before you sit down to eat make sure there is nothing he can get his paws or feet on! Give him a bone in his area and ignore. Or Shut him in a crate before you start to eat with a bone and ignore him.

I would never ever play with a dog unless I started the interaction. If a dog came to me with a toy and demanded to play I would ignore him, walk away, in your case if Rolo goes quietly and sits down I would then play with him. He learns I am quiet and sit down I may get a game. I would not do this every time he sits down just sometimes to keep him guessing.

I am unsure of how your son with ASP traits reacts but I would explain to him that Rollo needs to behave and I need his help with it. When Rollo starts to whine etc tell your son that Rollo is being very bossy and we will talk to him when he is quiet, turn it into a game, count how long it takes for Rollo to be quiet and see if it is better than last time. Make your son aware that Rollo is not unhappy just pushing his luck!

Two good walks off lead a day are enough for a Goldie. Don't worry about his need for a poo. If he has been out and does need a poo and you misunderstand it will not be the end of the world. He will learn to hold on for a while anyway. Two walks a day and being let out a lunchtime should be fine for him don't treat him with kid gloves he will take advantage!

I am trying really hard to word this so it doesnt sound harsh, so I am really sorry if it comes across wrong, I know that is not what you need and I defiantly dont mean it.
my puppy is 5 months old, he is driving me a bit mad at the moment with nicking stuff odd the sides, I tell him off, give him something he can have, and clearr the sides. generally my dogs get ignored (that makes me sound very eman), they get 5-10mins a day training seperatly, they get about an hour walk in the morning, I try to take them to different places so it is more stimulating for them. when they need the toilet I chuck them out and shut the door and carry on what i was doing, they ask when they want to come back in. if either of them starts demanding attention they get nothing, I choose when I have time to play not them.

I give them lots of nylabones, kongs, bones to keep them busy. in the evening they curl up on my lap until I chick them out for a wee before \i go to bed, whenever I choose to. No way on this earth would they get me up in the morning, when I get up they come outside while I sort the chickens out, have theie breakfast while the kids have theirs.

What sort of training do you do, have you tried clicker training, this could wear him out.
I think you need to ut the attention, you walk him and you play or train when you want to.
My puppy is a working cocker (so a bit of a nutter) and the older dog (only 20minths) is a terrier so both working dogs that need a lot of stimulation, I provide it, on my terms.
Mind you saying that I dont give my kids that much attention either

another thing which may help, my walks with my dogs are my down time, it is my relaxation, without it I go mad. I dnt always feel like it, but I always have such a great time when I am out, loads of head space and see such beautiful places that I would have no other reason to be in.

nothing to add on here because everyone has said exactly what i think
except - your dog needs to fit around you and your lifestyle - training/ignoring both needed imo
good luck

Thanks. I'm getting a bit clearer about a few things - like I'm giving in to Rollo's demands far too much!

However, another thing is a bit of a big concern - I don't have time to fit in a proper off lead wlak with Rollo before I start work (8.45am) and can only fit in an on lead walk straight from the house for maximum of 30 mins before the school run. I can't - for various reasons - alter the times of my morning meetings.

So I think I'm concerned that Rollo- after a night in his crate - basically has only 1.5 hrs attention, including 30 mins onlead walk - before having to resettle for another 3.5 hrs (7.30am till 11am).

I can also not fit in a walk from 11am till 12pm as I'm often on the phone re. work during that time too. So he doesn't really get a proper walk till 2pm.

IF my life were less rushed, I'd love dog walks, but even then at 2pm, I'm rushing to drive to the place nearest us, race him into the walk, check my watch and endure I'm home again by 3pm latest so I then leave for the school run.

Even at w/es, I'm worrying about the DCs hating every minute of the dog walks and wanting to be home, rather than enjoying the walk. Nighttime walking has become harder and harder as it gets v v dark and freezing cold and so we've recently resorted to just another on lead walk from the house for up to 1 hr max - but probably less. DC2 gets too worried to be left alone at night so have to take DCs with me then.

So on a weekday, Rollo often only gets ONE good off lead walk a day and the rest are on lead but I've tried to compensate for not having long stretches of time but doing shorter more frequent ones if possible.

Re. bones - Rollo isn't allowed them, according to the vet hospital. So there's nothing he'll chew at length and be happy with.

But I will stop holding onto his nylabones when he chews them! It is a bit ridiculous, isn't it!?

I'm glad you don't think you're over anxious, but your posts do come across like that. . That's tha trouble with the internet, its not akways easy to get a feel for how someone is...

It's not good that you have no 'down time'. Can you not sit down to meals with the dcs and crate the dog?

When you are walking him on your own, is that not relaxing? I find if I'm out in the country it really destresses me to see a few squirrels or the winter light in the trees.

What happens if you sit down in the sitting room once the dcs are in bed, and relax with Rollo, i.e. ignore him right through a whole programme? Wouldnt he give up eventually and have a snooze in front of the fire?

Or have a soak in the bath once you've crated him?

You need to take care of yourself, if you run yourself into the ground you won't be doing the dcs or the dog any favours...

I'm glad the diarrhoea has improved, thats good news

I also understand about the needing to be reminded that its not bad for the pup to be given firm boundaries. I'm the same, with kids as well as dogs - and the times I slip back into overly soft ways is when I'm over tired, overwhelmed, and overstretched. Sort of by default. So, good for you for recognizing thats whats happened and asking for a reminder!

Our 7.5 month old lab cross pup has also taken to jumping up at surfaces, and (worse) kids, when he's feeling bouncy or there's food around: would agree that prevention is the only solution, because telling off doesn't work. During meals, we are teaching him to lie down - every time he gets up and comes begging, one of us takes him back to his bed, says 'lie down', then leaves him again. It took a few repeat performances but he got it...bit like training kids to stay in bed after lights out...no idea if thats a good technique or utterly wrong, but it seems to have worked.

And we use his (very big) crate whenever he gets hyper, with a treat and lots of 'good boy' talk so its not punishment....just containment. Also when he's left alone, probably a total of 2 hours per day. I do wonder sometimes if I should cut down on using the crate, but reading this thread I guess its ok...and he's still very young.

It must be hard not being able to use food as a distraction - Mouse will basically do anything for food, so kongs are my saviour!