When does a dog become easy?

[Solo2]

Sorry - me again - with Rollo, golden retriever aged 10 months....and yes, a similar question to several past ones too but....

He's lovely. He's gorgeous. He's soppy and - massively demanding. My entire life revolves around his needs and some parts of every single day are just impossible - like from 4pm till 6pm when DCs back from school needing supper/HW support and Rollo needs maximum attention/play and another walk.

Just had to pay his lovely trainer for another 24 hrs respite as I'm still shatteringly tired. Not dog's fault - but my own busy lifestyle (solo mum running f/t business). At w/e, it was SO full on with him! Even after a massive 1.5 hr walk, he only napped for 45 mins and was rearing to go again just as I'd sat down to tea with my DCs.

If I don't attend to him when he's needy/bored/lively, he chews the doors/cupboard handles, snatches anything he can reach off surfaces or rushes round pushing a toy up against me, to 'make' me play with him. If all else fails, he whines v loudly or barks - especially if I confine him to the kitchen so we can eat a meal. If I let him be with us, I effectively have to supervise him ALL the time and can't leave him alone with the DCs.

I end up sititng on the kitchen floor with him, holding a nylabone for him to chew as he rests his lovely but terribly demanding furry self across my lap - or throw a ball for him up and down the room - not ideal, as he slips and slides on the wooden floor.

I walk him on lead from 6.40am till 7.15am but then he has to settle alone whilst i do school run and work till 11am. I play with/feed and toilet him from 11am till 12.00pm and then he again has to settle from 12.00pm till 2.00pm whilst I work. I walk him/run with him from 2.05pm till 2.45pm and then he has to settle again till 4pm when I'm home from school run.

So I can understand why he's really needy from 4pm onwards as he hasn't had hrs and hrs of input (although I know loads of other dogs who get a lot less exercise yet seem much more settled). But this is SUCH a busy time and w/es are even harder as the DCs are around but if he sees/ hears them, he doesn't even then do the settling for naps as he does on one of my working days.

So I'm pulled between dogwalks/play/training/toileting and DCs general needs and when everyone is resting/sitting down, that's my only time to catch up on jobs! I miss meals or eat on the go. I never sleep beyond 4.45am unless Rollo is having a sleepover with his trainer.

I am MASSIVELY relieved when he's not here - but realise it shouldn't be like this at all. At his trainers, he mooches with her other dogs, naps, never jumps up to surfaces or chews anything but nylabones (independently). Basically, she says he's incredibly easy. We've looked at why he's so different there and it may be cos she's got such a relaxed lifestyle and 3 other dogs to keep him company and can also do his main walk earlier in the day. Obviously, she's much more expert with dogs than I am too.

But please does this get any easier - or will it be this way at home till Rollo is an old man?

why don't you just do the simplest thing and get a dog walker to take him out while you are on the school run? If you cannot stretch to that every day, then alternate days to give yourself a break?! Or after you come back from the school run so that you don't feel so pressured whilst you are working? He could still come on teh sch run for the journey but you get home, dog walker arrives, you get on with meetings etc. Dog is shattered, comes back sleeps at your feet (or wherever) Job done! That way, instead of farming him off to your trainer for weeks at a time you can start to enjoy him wihtout pressuring yourselt to be his everything. It has to be a lot less costly and that way poor Rollo will not be confused about where he lives! Sorry to be irritated but everyone else seems to be so much more chilled (not presuming that I would be in your shoes btw) but you seriously need to give yourself a break!

alternatively - rehome him whilst he is still young and adaptable. No one seems to be getting a shred of pleasure from the poor dog

It does sound like it would be fairer on the dog to rehome him.

He's probably easier for your trainer because he's happier there in the more relaxed environment.

Dogs do feed off emotions and if your life is as hectic as you say it is Rollo is bound the be hyperactive. He wont calm down unless you do.

It does sound like it would be fairer on the dog to rehome him.

He's probably easier for your trainer because he's happier there in the more relaxed environment.

Dogs do feed off emotions and if your life is as hectic as you say it is Rollo is bound the be hyperactive. He wont calm down unless you do.

i would def get a dog walker.

he does not need 2.5hrs of walks a day.

he does not need to go off lead every day/

Why do you think he needs a walk at 11? He just needs to go in the garden for 2 minutes to toilet, and then he can come in again and sleep at your feet.

If he's asking for more attention, do you ignore him? He will get used to the idea that he has to settle - and the way to teach this is to ignore him if he is demanding attention.

It doesn't matter if he eats before or after you. Just feed him at the times that are convenient.

Good luck with it all Solo. You seem to be trying awfully hard and I really don't think you need to.

solo - I do think it would be great if you could poss redress ytour work/life balance. Could you not get someone in to temp for you for a little while? Or just a jnr to help out? One of your friends must have teenage chdildren who could do menial time consuming tasks for you for a bit of extra cash - anything to get you DE-[STRESSED!!!!!

Okay breathe.... I was exhausted reading your email - though I know my day is every bit as hectic as yours, I focus on what I can do - not what I can't do.

I think one real issue continues to stand out for me - that I have to do Rollo's morning walk on lead from the house, to fit it in - and always between 6.40am and 7.15am latest - so I can't do an exciting off lead/playing/training walk with him then.

This is NOT an issue.. no rule book says he needs exciting walk in the morning - a 5 min leg stretch (in the garden if need be) allows him to toilet and wake up. If that what suits your family, his immediate needs ARE being met with this!

He can't come on the school run as I get changed into work clothes (think female 'suit') after his walk, do the 40+ round trip drive and as soon as I'm home, I start meetings. can't change the time of these and have already started working later rather than from 8.15am, to accomodate Rollo.

Previously he couldn't come because of leaving him for 30 minutes in the car - what do you think he will do to the suit? Morning routine - kids having breakfast while you stand outside having a morning coffee chatting to Rollo as he has his morning sniff of garden and toilet. By meetings in your home are these over phone or are other people physically in your home? If so with a well behaved dog either option can be done with a dog curled up at your feet, your home, your dog!!

He has to settle till I'm free again at 11am but again can't take him on an exciting walk, as am still dressed for work, making work calls and just try to do a bit of training in the house with hima nd toilet him in garden.

It is no bigger deal for a dog to settle - if he is in the company of his top dog (that's you) he should be happy to relax beside you.

He can't have the run of the garden and if he's out there for long, he starts to dig holes and eat turf, stones, grass, plants avidly! (remember his tummy trouble history!) So the garden isn't really an exciting place for him and he now has a smallish dog run to wee in and that's it really.

I think you need to make the garden dog friendly, a suitable toilet place and maybe a designated place for him to dig. How do you know the garden is not exciting for him? It surely has potential as a place he could enjoy being with great smells etc. why not give him a toy or something you would like him to chew when he's out there? You are lucky to have a space you can allow him into, so get it working to your advantage.

This leaves me to do his main walk of the day - the first time he really gets a good run around - that needs to be squeezed in between 2pm and 3pm and as I want to give him an off lead run, it also involves a drive, so he gets about 45 mins maximum then. I'm always frantically rushing though to get him back home so I can do next school run. He can't go on that one either as I have to park quite a way away from the school and walk up a long driveway etc and I don't want to leave him unattended in the car for 30 to 40 mins in case he's stolen.

45mins with the extra short garden breaks is fine. That is what fits in for you - maybe over the weekend you could go to nice park etc for a longer outing with him. And the kids? Sorry but the rest sounds like excuses - now you are afraid he will be stolen! Can he not walk with you?

I'd love to go biking with him. Haven't currently got a bike though and also he's completely untrustworthy on walks and likely to suddenly yank away from the path and fling himself down to roll around! He'd have me and the bike over in no time at all!!

My dogs refuse to walk next to a bike!

DCs completely ignore Rollo most of the time and won't take part in any games/ interaction or play with him so it's always down to me.

Difficult to feed him after we eat as he had b/fast at 6am and i eat mine in car on school run. He has luch at 11am and I never get time for lunch myself. He has his last meal at 4pm, just after I return from school run and before I get time to make DCs meal and I use the time the DCs are eating, to rush around clearing kitchen or making work calls or checking emails and eat on the go.

It is important he eats after you - for heavens sake YOU decide when he eats so change the blooming times. Does he really need 3 meals a day? I doubt it. Have lunch yourself (you are going to kill yourself the way you neglect your needs) and feed Rollo after. Sit down after school run and EAT with your children, feed Rollo afterwards. If you really cannot spare this 15 minutes reduce your workload!

Clearly, we're not a relaxed household! I never ever ever ever just sit and have a cup of tea or a meal. I never ever ever sit in the sitting room, never watch TV, never stop at all really except for 15 mins before sleeping, when i read in bed. Even without Rollo here the last few days, I've not stopped at all. The only difference is that I've got up at 6am instead of 5.30am and I've not had to fit in dog walks but every single moment of every say is packed full. Even if i get on MN, it's usually in small bursts of time, whilst on the go.

Anyway, he'll be back soon now - so will try to cultivate a c DS2 was tearful earlier at the thought of Rollo returning and all the extra stress he brings. It's just sad that he Rollo hasn't - yet - brought pleasure and I can fully see that it's my busy life at fault and not Rollo's fault - but can't see at all how to make more hrs in the day!

No you are not relaxed- in fact you seem to have no quality of life and something has to give. I think the problems are far greater then the dog - you really need some perspective on life. I would consider myself busy, 4 kids a self employed husband who is always away and I run our family business. My dogs are important to me and I look at ways to fit them into my heavy schedule - it forces me to some time to relax and walk with them. I do not mean to cause offence when I say it sounds like you are thinking of every excuse NOT to involve Rollo in family life - things are only going to get worse with this mentality. You really do need to decide if you wish to commit to this relationship - if you do then a whole change of attitude is needed and you need to "dog-up to the role of alpha- bitch!".

If you can't commit to making changes to your priorities - do Rollo a favour and let him be re-homed into a family that can give him what he needs.

cross wired

Ouefman - I agree with all you have said. OP seems determined to make life as difficult for herself as possible. I hiope she reads these and takes notice at last. I do feel so sorry for poor Rollo - he must be sooo confused. I'll have him!

OP, hope things are going well with Rollo. Just to add that pack theory, alpha dog and ideas about dominance have now been widely discredited - here is an interesting article, which gives a brief overview of how the science has progressed.

Well done on being a responsible pet owner who doesn't leave their dog in a car - you are right to be concerned about dog theft.

There have been lots of positive suggestions (extra help in the house, a dog walker). As you've recognised though, it's more to do with your level of tension than Rollo himself. I really hope that's something you can change, so all of you can enjoy Rollo, rather than experiencing him as a burden. Wishing you all the best.

"I think the problems are far greater then the dog "

Yep.

Second thread along these lines in here recently.

Ok, I'm going to be honest and say I have not read the full thread so I'm sorry if what I'm saying is redundant.

i have a GR x poodle who was a nightmare when we first got her. I would sit on the floor and cry while she barked at me because she wanted something and i did not know what. She is currently asleep next to me, she gets one walk and one offlead run a day plus time in the garden. She is the most chilled out dog in the world. I'm not sure what changed, I'm sure we can't take all the credit, but this is what we did

1. We stopped running our lives around her and made her run around our lives. She got NOTHING if she was barking. It was horrible and loud and I spent a lot of time apologising to neighbours but it worked eventually (well, most of the time)

1. We bought what we called the doggy play pen (www.petsathome.com/shop/dog-play-pen-by-pets-at-home-25507)

Whenever we wanted her to be calm she went in there. It was full of toys, a comfy bed and often we would give her a stuffed kong (sometimes frozen so it took her longer). We also fed her in there and had her water there. This was her safe place. However, she ALWAYS had to stay in until she was calm. if she barked to be out she was ignored. the SECOND her bum hit the floor and she shut up she was let out. When she was out the door was open so she had the choice to return.

1. We cut down on treats. She only got a treat if she had worked for it, even if it was just sitting quietly

So, this was our routine (She had to fit around work too, but OH worked from home so she HAD to be calm)

6am: Short walk on lead followed by offlead in garden and run of house
8am: Into playpen with breakfast meal.
11am: Out of playpen, family time
1pm: Into playpen with stuffed kong
3.30: Big walk, offlead followed by full run of house
6pm: Into playpen with tea
6.30: Full run of house

If at any point she was too demanding or uncontrollable she went into her playpen. she actually learnt the phrase "Into the box" and would walk in with her head hanging.

When she was 18 months old we got rid of the box but left her bed where it was. she still goes "Into the box" when she has been naughty (she occassionally raids the bin or eats can food) even though it's not there any more

solo2 - surely with all the amazingly good advice you are getting on this thread you should be able to turn a corner with rollo. Your previous post about how you parented your children (bf for a long while, attachment parenting etc) speaks volumes about how you are approaching dog ownership. Rollo deserves to be a valued member of your family without a doubt but he is a dog! and as such does not require personification. YOu need to de-stress and enjoy things. Over the xmas holidays you can surely relax your tight schedule and just let things ride for a bit. At first I felt sympathy for you when Rollo was going through is iccky tummy phase etc but now I feel sorry for poor Rollo. The poor pup must be picking up on all this stress and angst and probably doesn;t have a clue what is expected of him. Sorry to sound exasperated but if you were reading these posts and taking note, you would surely be making progress instead of continuously putting obstacles in teh way. I know you are probably thinking that we all just don;t understand where you are coming from, but we do. Good luck Solo2 - give Rollo a giant hug from all of us. He sounds like he is potentially the most gorgeous dog ever - if only you would give him half a chance

I don't agree with a lot of what crossedwires has said on here, but her last post was spot-on! I think you have to calm down and relax a bit. It speaks volumes that you had no time to yourself even when Rollo was at the trainers.

You have to look at your life and see what you can do differently.

You seem to spend a lot of time each day ferrying the kids to and from school. Will this continue or will they change schools for Secondary? From previous posts you seem to still do a lot for the boys. I think you should be starting to get them to do more for themselves and take on more responsibilility.

Why don't you sit down with the boys for your evening meal? I could understand if they were very small, but surely at their age you should all be eating together.

As another poster said, not everything has to be perfect - just good enough!

Thank you for trying to help. I probably haven't explained everything v clearly but you've certainly picked up the jist of things that I'm incredibly busy, desperate to give Rollo a lovely home life and am still working on getting this right for all of us. I come on MN for ideas, support and a sense that 'I'm not alone'!

Incidentally, the garden isn't safe for Rollo (got a natural deep water swimming pond and also he ate so many berries from plants etc that we now think that this is what gave him chronic diarrhoea for months on end in the past). He's now got a safe but small area with dog run and I rely on walks really for his exercise.

Re. leaving him unattended in the car - that refers to the second school run, when pick up time takes around 30 to 40 mins by the time I've walked up school drive from parking in road and waited for DCs to get all the right stuff for each evening! We're often the last there and I get worried that Rollo might be stolen from our car in the street if he's left for so long alone.

The first school run, he could go along with us but it's v difficult picking up a large golden retriever and putting him into the boot, without getting work clothes muddy and torn! (he can't get in and out himself) and often the boot is full up with DCs musical instruments, games kit, PE kit, school rucksacks etc etc!

Rollo has to have 3 meals a day because of his stomach problems - and the times of those fit around his toileting needs and my availability.

I am spurred on by the feedback to make this all work better for everyone and be less anxious that Rollo doesn't have enough. In fact, most are saying I do far too much for him and a little more benign neglect would be fine.

I've always wanted a dog, lifelong and the mistake I made was to remember the feelings of longing, as an 11 yr old without any responsibilities or cares, and expect that this would still work at 48, when I'm trying to be both a f/t solo mum to my sons AND the only breadwinner, running a f/t business! However, I'm determined to keep 'learning on the job' as a dog owner and probably have just needed to hear repeated messages that I'm trying to do TOO much for Rollo and can ease up a bit. It's such a busy time of year too (barely done any Xmas shopping or prep. for my DCs!) that this adds to my stress.

Anyway, Rollo is chilling out in the kitchen and I'm about to have another meeting (yes, it's face-to-face meetings with people) and then I'll take him out for a good run in the sleet and ice before the school run! He seems perfectly happy since coming home yesterday from his trainers and she was saying how happy he is to have both his family and regular 'playdates/sleepovers' with her and her 3 dogs too! and never seems to have any problem adjusting to the different set-ups. He has just eaten a lot more of the bottom of the kitchen door today too though and ate a duvet at hers!

with regards getting him and out the car, a lady i see on the school run has a ramp into her car boot, which her big GR trots up ,then she folds ramp up and pops it into the back of the car

glad to see you back, and not taking anything to heart, everyone here wants to support you. my dogs arent in the garden much at the moment as it is too muddy and too cold and I cant leave them out as neighbour has access through so not secure. it is definatly a busy and stressful time, you will work the balance out, it is just taking longer, probaby because of the earier health problems.

That ramp sounds a brilliant idea - everybody laughs at me because I climb into the boot and then try and encourage my lazy puppy to jump in.

Solo I honestly don't think anything we say will make any difference. There is always a but, rather than a solution.

I am busy, we all are busy, but if you want a relationship with a dog you just have to make time.

I have five dc's and a DH (who is more work than the DC's put together) work, often in the evenings as well, competing at Olympia on Monday, have a housefullcoming to stay over Christmas and Boxing Day BUT my dogs will not suffer or notice the difference! It really is a state of mind!

currently have 6 children in the house, a dog and a husband. ralph is laying under the stairs with his legs in the air, just poking his nose out when someone walks past. he knows he wont get attention or a walk if he fusses.

though he had a manic 5 mins earier in the snow flurries and covered me in mud!

Ooh, Minimuu what are you doing at Olympia??

OP I agree with Minimuu. I just don't see how things are going to improve.

Olympia? Intrigued. Please tell.
A tip I was given to teach a dog to get into a car: Carefully place the dog's front paws up on the boot opening. Don't force him if he's against it. Give him a treat if that works for him. Then put an arm under his stomach and lift his back end in. Another treat. After what seems like a million times of doing this they start to get it.
Or, find someone with a dog that does jump in and shame him into copying. Dogs will copy, and I'm sure they get embarrassed (please no one disprove this. I like the idea )

Oh I'm not going to try to disprove it, Scrappy! I love anthropomorphising and do it all the time

Reading with interest: have boot divider gate thingy on order.

Scrappy, I swear my last dog used to stand and watch his mates swim with hideous shame - he would bark frantically at them, and slink off looking furious as if they were showing him up (he was scared of water).

He also once chased a baby squirrel that froze in its tracks - Dingo-dog hadn't a clue what to do, turned tail and slunk back to me looking very embarrassed, then bit a stick. Dogs definitely get embarrassed.

No one could convince me otherwise

Solo, 'desperate to give Rollo a lovely home life' sounds like a key to me - he already HAS a lovely home life! I do relate to the trying too hard (for me, its compensation gone wrong when I get into it) but you are so right to pick up on everyone saying 'chill, don't try so hard...'.....

....sometimes its in the kids/dogs/partners/work' best interest to say 'sod the kids/dog/partner/work' and look after ourselves by doing whatever helps us to lighten up