When does a dog become easy?

[Solo2]

Sorry - me again - with Rollo, golden retriever aged 10 months....and yes, a similar question to several past ones too but....

He's lovely. He's gorgeous. He's soppy and - massively demanding. My entire life revolves around his needs and some parts of every single day are just impossible - like from 4pm till 6pm when DCs back from school needing supper/HW support and Rollo needs maximum attention/play and another walk.

Just had to pay his lovely trainer for another 24 hrs respite as I'm still shatteringly tired. Not dog's fault - but my own busy lifestyle (solo mum running f/t business). At w/e, it was SO full on with him! Even after a massive 1.5 hr walk, he only napped for 45 mins and was rearing to go again just as I'd sat down to tea with my DCs.

If I don't attend to him when he's needy/bored/lively, he chews the doors/cupboard handles, snatches anything he can reach off surfaces or rushes round pushing a toy up against me, to 'make' me play with him. If all else fails, he whines v loudly or barks - especially if I confine him to the kitchen so we can eat a meal. If I let him be with us, I effectively have to supervise him ALL the time and can't leave him alone with the DCs.

I end up sititng on the kitchen floor with him, holding a nylabone for him to chew as he rests his lovely but terribly demanding furry self across my lap - or throw a ball for him up and down the room - not ideal, as he slips and slides on the wooden floor.

I walk him on lead from 6.40am till 7.15am but then he has to settle alone whilst i do school run and work till 11am. I play with/feed and toilet him from 11am till 12.00pm and then he again has to settle from 12.00pm till 2.00pm whilst I work. I walk him/run with him from 2.05pm till 2.45pm and then he has to settle again till 4pm when I'm home from school run.

So I can understand why he's really needy from 4pm onwards as he hasn't had hrs and hrs of input (although I know loads of other dogs who get a lot less exercise yet seem much more settled). But this is SUCH a busy time and w/es are even harder as the DCs are around but if he sees/ hears them, he doesn't even then do the settling for naps as he does on one of my working days.

So I'm pulled between dogwalks/play/training/toileting and DCs general needs and when everyone is resting/sitting down, that's my only time to catch up on jobs! I miss meals or eat on the go. I never sleep beyond 4.45am unless Rollo is having a sleepover with his trainer.

I am MASSIVELY relieved when he's not here - but realise it shouldn't be like this at all. At his trainers, he mooches with her other dogs, naps, never jumps up to surfaces or chews anything but nylabones (independently). Basically, she says he's incredibly easy. We've looked at why he's so different there and it may be cos she's got such a relaxed lifestyle and 3 other dogs to keep him company and can also do his main walk earlier in the day. Obviously, she's much more expert with dogs than I am too.

But please does this get any easier - or will it be this way at home till Rollo is an old man?

Marking my spot - there is a lot here that is relevant ot me. Solo I was wondering how you were getting on. Will reply with more later.

hi solo - been watching your threads. How're you feeling today? I hope you are managing to strike a balance. YOu seem to be knocking yourself out a bit over Rollo. It strikes me as the equivalent of a needy baby who is getting his own way all the time. He cries, you pick him up, he whines, you feed him, he looks in your direction you feel instant guilt! You probably just need to take a step back and listen to all the amazing advice you are being given. Everyone else seems far more chilled at this stage than you do right now. I hope you see more clearly now. Good luck :-)

Solo I hope this advice has been helpful to you as it has been to me. Daisy is now one and still quite challenging - lots of barking which adds to the stress level. When I stagger in the door from new job and am trying to catch up with DH and DCs Daisy is in between every conversation barking frantically. I make her sit and be quiet before I pat her but when I resume my conversation she is barking again. It is the most stressful part of the day.
I think where I went wrong was in all the initial advice I got, I got very confused about when to ignore and when to rebuke. You actually can't ignore a dog chewing great chunks out of the sofa!
This thread has reminded me that hyperness can come from being overstimlulated. I tend to think that more exersise and attention will improve behaviour when it can just make her worse.
It is hard for you doing it on your own; I have the opposite in that DH did not really want a dog so whenever she does something dreadful I feel as if it is my fault. He does love her, chats to her and takes her for the odd short walk but feels fed up over the barking and the chewing...

Rollo's at his trainers again for a few days as we have several extra committments involving evenings/afternoons and I just couldn't fit in his basic walks plus these too (DC end of term related).

However, just a few things to add: I don't think Rollo per se is the problem. In fact his trainer says he's just about the easiest dog she's ever had! I think I am the problem - both my general worrying attitude and my lifestyle - lots of responsibilities and no support coming in for me on any level.

It really helps to have feedback here and I laughed knowingly at Llanath's (sorry, might have spelled that wrong) post. Yes, I am totally reminded of myself with babies and all the things I worried about back them - like had they had enough sleep/ feeds/holding/stimulation etc. So this is just a repetition of my parenting attitude! In fact, it really has been like having a third child!

The main difference is that I don't feel guilty about getting some help - from the trainer - and getting Rollo to stay with her occasionally. With my premature twin sons, I ardently practised attachment parenting/ b/fed for 28 months, slept with them clamped to me till they were 5 YEARS old - and they didn't sleep through the night till then either! I was massively sleep deprived and yet felt constantly guilty that I wasn't giving them enough. Had absolutely no help except a cleaner/cook for about 4 months that I paid - otherwise no family/child care/partner etc.

So I do think it's ME and not Rollo who is making this such a problem and also the fact that i failed to consider properly my lifestyle and current demands before investing in a puppy. Even since this early morning when Rollo went to his trainer's, I've had a totally full on day with domestic and children demands non-stop. Adding a puppy to my life was really not a great idea - well more so, bad timing. Should have waited till my DTs were 18...

However, whilst I fantasise about rehoming and if he gets chronic diarrhoea again, really don't think I could go on at all - he's MY dog - like MY child - and barring extreme circumstances - like me getting some horrible illness or DCs becoming longterm ill - I'm more focused on fidning ways to make this work.

Whilst I'm a total neurotic worrier and stressed massively by my juggling-act of my life - I'm also a strong, determined woman and I'm determined to MAKE having a dog the joy I always thought it would be - back when I was that 11 yr old girl, desperate for a dog.

An attitude change is primarily what I need - to stop worrying about Rollo and find creative solutions to specific concerns - which is where all of you come in!

Incidentally, last night, DT1 was sick and that added massively to my usual worries but what I just HAD to do was not walk Rollo for his 30 min evening walk as I didn't want to leave DT1 for long and wanted DT2 to stay in with DT1, as this felt safer, instead of come on the walk. Inevitably, this totally scared DT2 who worried whilst I was out but in any case, I only tool Rollo out for 12 mins and then back home. He still settled in his crate - even 30 mins earlier than normal - and slept all night - whilst I was up with DT1 and no harm done. So I'm proving to myself that when I HAVE to give less to Rollo, he still survives. He HAD had a longer than normal afternoon walk however but even so, I can now see evidence that he can manage without having 'perfect' care!

So I hope I'm not irritating people when I ask for help again and again but it is extremely useful to me to have what people have said before, re-emphasised again (sorry Minimu! I'll get there in the end!)

It sounds like you set incredibly high standards for yourself Solo, but it's ok not to be perfect all the time you know. When I was tying myself up in knots trying to be the perfect puppy 'parent' my DH said something that really hit home. 'Don't make yourself a victim of the dog's routine'. He was so right
Once I relaxed a bit, I was happier and the dog was happier. They pick up on stress, and worry too.

it wont kill rolo if he doesnt get every walk every day. if you have a busy few days, then the dog needs to slot in around that. he doesnt need to go to the trainers every time u have a few hectic days.

i have a very busy week as well (5 kids, one husband, one dog), dh working evenings due to xmas run up, kids here there any everywhere with xmas stuff. the dog has to have his walks when i can fit it in. if that involved a quick 15mins to the late night garage to get milk at the hatch after dh has finsihed work, then thats what he'll get. if its on the school run each day, then so be it, if its a quick march round the different blocks, again so what. he is walked, fed, and trained. if one day i cant actually get him on his walk (may well happen tomorrow as ds is ill), then we'll do some training in the house, work on some door manners etc. or just sit in the front garden with him on the lead watching the birds and cats, and teaching him commands and treating him when he sits and stays.

I don't have a dog but your op made me laugh because he sounds just like my 19 month old!

ha ha Haziedoll!

We did crate training for 2 weeks for toilet training also and put baby gate on utility so he can see us in kitchen. We ignore him if he barks or whines for attention and only let him out when he is quiet. He did not ever spend long periods of time in crate or behind gate. Now he is 4 he only sleeps in crate at night and stays behind gate after walk when wet or if I out.
They do calm down normally at about 2 yrs.

How's it going this week, Solo?

yes, how's it going?

Thanks for asking but he's still staying at his trainers because I have such a busy scedule this week that I couldn't fit in dog walks, play, training and toileting too. Trainer reports that he's being perfect as usual with her - no chewing, barking or jumping up at surfaces. He's a great help with her recently acquired rescue dog (who is terrified of people and lived wild for 6 months before being taken in by her) and is the only dog she'll play with.

So Rollo is having a great time and helping out too, while I'm frantically busy and grateful to have some time off the lovely pup-squeak (my nickname for him), especially as I also now have flu-like symptoms and couldn't imagine 2.5 hrs brisk walking/running a day at the moment.

When he's back, from Thursday night, I'll resolve to apply all that's been suggested here. Have done no preparations or shopping for Xmas at all and have no idea how to manage this, plus Rollo, plus DCs plus work!!! - but will cope somehow.

It's very sad to admit that life is infinitely easier without lovely Rollo around. I wish it wasn't that way but it is. I'm sure we'll get there in the end though.

Hi solo2. I am the owner of 2 dogs and like you have a very busy life - run a business, DH works all the time and 4 DC. My dogs fit into my life - and like children they like to feel secure in their pack hierarchy!
Our youngest dog does the school run with me (we have no choice in this, as she hears the keys being picked up in the morning she is ready and at the car, tail wagging). She waits in the car guarding it for as long as it takes, I walk her of the lead on the way home for about an hour.
At work she sleeps at my feet under the desk, she does not ask for attention, but because of this she gets the odd cuddle and hug - I would COMPLETLEY IGNORE her if she hassled me! How often do you use his name?
I have a lovely friend who also has dogs. Like you she can't seem to relax with them. When out walking she calls the dog back every few seconds and really will not just let the animal do it's own thing in a very safe suitable environment. I eventually banned her from saying the dogs name unless she needed to and have slowly got her to relax and trust in her dog, the dog is like a different animal - not stressed and hyper anymore.
I would start to take dog on school run - obviously not on hot days! Have a dog bed where you work, encourage dog to use it with treats and ignore dog lots! When dog is happy relaxing in its bed, that's when I would after time go over and give it a friendly pat.
I know that sounds cruel - but by stopping over stimulating the dog, you will be facilitating its whole hearted integration into the family leading to a happy hound! It is when these boundaries are set - you can then form the special bond you should have with your family dog. Our youngest dog is mad about DH and the duvet. If it suits us she is allowed to sleep curled up behind my DH knees. She waits to be invited, but when she knows she will be allowed she bounds onto the bed and under the duvet with such excitement. It is only because we can say no to this and that my DH has a real soft spot for her that we allow this. It's not about being really trict, it's about the dog living to your terms and rules!
Our dogs live with 5 cats, a parrot, hamster, fish and a demented bunny! They live in harmony as we expect them to and we are the bosses - our animals feel very secure in that (though the eldest dog is put out that the bunny thinks its the boss). Our young kids love our dogs - using them as pillows to cuddle in to when upset and generally involving them in family life - but on their terms (most of the time)!

you sound like you shouldn't own a dog

Solo have you tried running Rollo alongside your bicycle? That's my new default walk when I'm too busy to take our 10-month old to the beach for a proper off lead run and it works a treat!

Oeufman - what a brilliant post. I hope OP comes back and reads it. It makes perfect sense and I don't even have a dog!

From personal experience this morning:

Have a back door that somehow blows open in the wind. Also have a back gate that blows open in the wind. That way, your dog will escape (in my case, 2 dogs) and take itself round the block before tapping on the next door neighbour's door (surprising her because she opened the door expecting the postman) and being let in to play with her children and be fed biscuits.

That sort of adventure will result in a happily knackered dog.

Thanks for the complement :)

Solo2 i hope you have your dog back now. I was just reading the post above and think you are over complicating matters.

Thanks for asking but he's still staying at his trainers because I have such a busy scedule this week that I couldn't fit in dog walks, play, training and toileting too.

Okay - so in the morning whilst you are walking the dog play with it (ball, chase etc), do some simple call-back exercises with reward and cuddles (perhaps at start of walk, to calm dog and remind you are in charge), allow the dog (if suitable safe environment) off the leash to mooch around and be dog like - it will probably toilet at this stage.... Look the list is complete. When you are having a cuppa in the day put on your jacket, out to garden for a few minutes and let Rollo do his business.

I think a lot of the issues you are having are due to the huge anxiety Rollo must be feeling as he struggles to find his place in your family pack - and I must say if my 4 kids were subjected to the intensity of walks you have described they too would resent our dogs. So my advice

Stop trying to walk the dog for 2.5 hours every day. I think an hour of relaxed fun walking with playtime and off leash time with a relaxed you letting Rollo do his thing (within reason) is plenty - with maybe a 15 min play session with the kids if it suits. If you can't do an hour - do as much as you can. In our house the dogs sleep while the children do homework, they eat after our dinner ( they sit in the kitchen waiting while we eat - again this reinforces we are more superior in the pack) and after popping out the loo they curl p infront of the fire with the children.

involve the dog in family life and let Rollo be part of the routine Dogs are clever - fact! Our girls know exactly what is going on in the house and when. I touch my car keys - our terrier springs up from her slumber, tail wagging ready to bounce into the car to claim her seat. She LOVES the school run, the kids LOVE having her on the run. She waits in the car and greets each child with such passion as they enter the car. If I drive to a certain area she knows a walk is on the cards etc.

Create your own family rules and boundaries for both the dog and yourselves Our dog has her own quiet area in the house (under DD bed) and the kids do not touch her if she is there. The older dog has a bed in every room that she moves between depending on where I am. My older girl has to be in the same room as me - younger dog much more independent. At home they are ignored unless I wish to interact with them (which I do a huge amount, talking to them, having my cuppa cuddled on the floor with them, giving the odd treat - but on my terms) though I do of course ensure their needs are met (food/water) and respect their personalities - I would always ensure the older girl knows if I am leaving a room for a long period so she can follow if she wants, the younger dog does her own thing. Rollo must fit into your family life (so long as his needs are met) and learn to live with your rules.

stop attributing human emotions and needs on to Rollo Rollo will be fine (will actually thrive on) a lot less attention. He will be fine (assuming it is not a hot day) in the car for 30 minutes. Our young dog will often wait for us in the car for up to 2 hours - so long as I know she has being watered and toileted I know she is very happy asleep in the car. I would always park in a cool underground carpark in a quite location. This time has built up gradually - but it is much more important to her to be allowed on these trips and to be left to guard the car then to be left at home. Rollo needs to feel secure in a hierarchy as a matter of urgency... Always feed him after your dinner, get him to sit as you place his food down, never let him walk through a door before you, if you say no to something be consistent. As a young dog I would try and avoid temptation by keeping surfaces clear - as he matures he will with the right guidance exhibit self-restraint as he will be so desperate to please you - the alpha female. I could leave a plate of food on the floor and my older dog would not touch it until I put it in her bowl, she would also discipline the younger dog if she went near it. It is not cruel to be the alpha female of the pack (with DTs next on hierarchy), it is very comforting to the dog as they can trust you to make pack decisions etc.

I would suggest you need to start to think of yourself as a pack with Rollo at the bottom (having watched my older dog instil this hierarchy in the younger dog has being an education - she does not allow the younger dog to step out of line at all). Hopefully you will see a sharp improvement in behaviour leading to the dog of our dreams!

oeufman - what a brilliant and helpful post for Solo2. I do hope she reads it. She seems awfully stressed with all the stuff she does for rollo, it's no wonder the dog is wired!

Crossedwires - I'd say he's wired to the moon and back :)

Oeufman

Hi, Rollo is back in 30 mins and I'm rushing around trying to do all the things that need to be done - like clear kitchen surfaces and other rooms he goes in! Thanks for the good advice. I know I need to relax a lot more with him.

I think one real issue continues to stand out for me - that I have to do Rollo's morning walk on lead from the house, to fit it in - and always between 6.40am and 7.15am latest - so I can't do an exciting off lead/playing/training walk with him then. He can't come on the school run as I get changed into work clothes (think female 'suit') after his walk, do the 40+ round trip drive and as soon as I'm home, I start meetings. can't change the time of these and have already started working later rather than from 8.15am, to accomodate Rollo.

He has to settle till I'm free again at 11am but again can't take him on an exciting walk, as am still dressed for work, making work calls and just try to do a bit of training in the house with hima nd toilet him in garden.

He can't have the run of the garden and if he's out there for long, he starts to dig holes and eat turf, stones, grass, plants avidly! (remember his tummy trouble history!) So the garden isn't really an exciting place for him and he now has a smallish dog run to wee in and that's it really.

This leaves me to do his main walk of the day - the first time he really gets a good run around - that needs to be squeezed in between 2pm and 3pm and as I want to give him an off lead run, it also involves a drive, so he gets about 45 mins maximum then. I'm always frantically rushing though to get him back home so I can do next school run. He can't go on that one either as I have to park quite a way away from the school and walk up a long driveway etc and I don't want to leave him unattended in the car for 30 to 40 mins in case he's stolen.

I'd love to go biking with him. Haven't currently got a bike though and also he's completely untrustworthy on walks and likely to suddenly yank away from the path and fling himself down to roll around! He'd have me and the bike over in no time at all!!

DCs completely ignore Rollo most of the time and won't take part in any games/ interaction or play with him so it's always down to me.

Difficult to feed him after we eat as he had b/fast at 6am and i eat mine in car on school run. He has luch at 11am and I never get time for lunch myself. He has his last meal at 4pm, just after I return from school run and before I get time to make DCs meal and I use the time the DCs are eating, to rush around clearing kitchen or making work calls or checking emails and eat on the go.

Clearly, we're not a relaxed household! I never ever ever ever just sit and have a cup of tea or a meal. I never ever ever sit in the sitting room, never watch TV, never stop at all really except for 15 mins before sleeping, when i read in bed. Even without Rollo here the last few days, I've not stopped at all. The only difference is that I've got up at 6am instead of 5.30am and I've not had to fit in dog walks but every single moment of every say is packed full. Even if i get on MN, it's usually in small bursts of time, whilst on the go.

Anyway, he'll be back soon now - so will try to cultivate a calm mind set! DS2 was tearful earlier at the thought of Rollo returning and all the extra stress he brings. It's just sad that he Rollo hasn't - yet - brought pleasure and I can fully see that it's my busy life at fault and not Rollo's fault - but can't see at all how to make more hrs in the day!

for your beautiful doggy

SOLO - I am refusing to let Harley see this thread in case he sees what he is missing

I work full-time, DH is a special needs teacher (and allergic to rain apparently) and we have 3 DC. Harley is one of the family, and the least demanding one as he seems to worship us regardless of how we look after him. He is loved (by everyone but most ...erm...'emphatically' by DS2 ). I give the best walks and the most frequent but when I am not avaiable anyone will do. He gets fed, wormed, de-flea-ed, cuddled walked......after a fashion. He is healthy and happy. I think that is enough.

IME dogs are the people that fit in with everyone else. And as long as they are given a place to fit in, they are happy.