When does a dog become easy?

[Solo2]

Sorry - me again - with Rollo, golden retriever aged 10 months....and yes, a similar question to several past ones too but....

He's lovely. He's gorgeous. He's soppy and - massively demanding. My entire life revolves around his needs and some parts of every single day are just impossible - like from 4pm till 6pm when DCs back from school needing supper/HW support and Rollo needs maximum attention/play and another walk.

Just had to pay his lovely trainer for another 24 hrs respite as I'm still shatteringly tired. Not dog's fault - but my own busy lifestyle (solo mum running f/t business). At w/e, it was SO full on with him! Even after a massive 1.5 hr walk, he only napped for 45 mins and was rearing to go again just as I'd sat down to tea with my DCs.

If I don't attend to him when he's needy/bored/lively, he chews the doors/cupboard handles, snatches anything he can reach off surfaces or rushes round pushing a toy up against me, to 'make' me play with him. If all else fails, he whines v loudly or barks - especially if I confine him to the kitchen so we can eat a meal. If I let him be with us, I effectively have to supervise him ALL the time and can't leave him alone with the DCs.

I end up sititng on the kitchen floor with him, holding a nylabone for him to chew as he rests his lovely but terribly demanding furry self across my lap - or throw a ball for him up and down the room - not ideal, as he slips and slides on the wooden floor.

I walk him on lead from 6.40am till 7.15am but then he has to settle alone whilst i do school run and work till 11am. I play with/feed and toilet him from 11am till 12.00pm and then he again has to settle from 12.00pm till 2.00pm whilst I work. I walk him/run with him from 2.05pm till 2.45pm and then he has to settle again till 4pm when I'm home from school run.

So I can understand why he's really needy from 4pm onwards as he hasn't had hrs and hrs of input (although I know loads of other dogs who get a lot less exercise yet seem much more settled). But this is SUCH a busy time and w/es are even harder as the DCs are around but if he sees/ hears them, he doesn't even then do the settling for naps as he does on one of my working days.

So I'm pulled between dogwalks/play/training/toileting and DCs general needs and when everyone is resting/sitting down, that's my only time to catch up on jobs! I miss meals or eat on the go. I never sleep beyond 4.45am unless Rollo is having a sleepover with his trainer.

I am MASSIVELY relieved when he's not here - but realise it shouldn't be like this at all. At his trainers, he mooches with her other dogs, naps, never jumps up to surfaces or chews anything but nylabones (independently). Basically, she says he's incredibly easy. We've looked at why he's so different there and it may be cos she's got such a relaxed lifestyle and 3 other dogs to keep him company and can also do his main walk earlier in the day. Obviously, she's much more expert with dogs than I am too.

But please does this get any easier - or will it be this way at home till Rollo is an old man?

Ok how about I try and say what I would do with your day? would that help?

Sorry, x posted and loads of typos....

Yes please, Dita... I sometimes wish someone could be here alongside me and help me time manage differently with all kind sof things in my life! Please go ahead! In fact, this is what I think I'm looking for - a way to make this work for us with Roolo - in specific detail.

I don't think a walk on the lead is a bad thing, a walk is a walk at the end of the day.

Wednesdays are always bad days for me as I'm busy all morning so my poor pup got a quick 20 minute walk and was then in his crate from 9.00 till 12.00 - let out in the garden at 12.00 and we didn't get to take him for a proper run till 3.30.

Now it's getting darker his last walk is getting earlier and earlier, I don't think it matters so much as long as they get let out to go to the toilet throughout the evening.

My puppy was terrible on a night for wanting to go out for a wee every 5 minutes I couldn't sit down to watch a TV programme or anything, but in the last month he's got better and I might only have to take him out once every 40 minutes - which is a massive improvement. I think things get better as puppies get older.

My pup is a sod for jumping up and stealing things off surfaces, if I catch him he gets "get down" shouted at him but just tonight he nicked the cheese I'd grated for the baked potatoes while I answered the phone. My fault I should have pushed it out of reach.

My terrier is very full on and would be like Rolo if he was given half the chance. Our day looks like this:

He now gets up at around 8, just before the school run. He was kind of forced into this habit because I left him in his crate until then. With Rolo could you leave him half an hour longer and build it up slowly?

His walk is 9am until 10 am. I try and encorporate a run with the walk. He gets no further attention until 2pm when I do some training with him for around half an hour. He is free to potter about the house but is generally locked out the back (kitchen, dining room and yard) which is kept dog friendly so there is not much he can destroy. If he jumps on me for attention I completely ignore him.

After that he gets no more attention until it's dinner time when he gets his dinner served in his crate with the door shut until we are finished eating.

If I am not working the evening he gets a further walk at 7pm for about 45 minutes then he is allowed to snuggle on the sofa but is removed from the room into the (empty) hallway if he misbehaves, demands games or tortures the other dogs to play with him. This is something the rescue I work with advised me to do because we were getting no peace from him, nor were the hounds, due to his constantly diving on them trying to goade them into playfighting with him. He soon learnt anything but quiet snuggling got him removed from the family room into a small empty room. He cried and scratched at the door but we didn't let him in until he was quiet. On the rare occassions we need to do this now he quietens down straight away.

On the evenings I work his second walk is earlier but everything else is the same. He's pretty chilled most of the time now.

too many buts...... so I give up

You do need to accept that Rolo has needs and that may mean changing things around a bit however they are usually solveable if you want them to be.

Ok don't give him a bone, but give him his dinner in a kong or tuga jug when you have your meals! Or just put him on a lead and tie him to your chair when you eat and ignore him.

Re exercise if he can only have a 30 min on lead walk then that is what he gets (It would make your life easier if you could delay your first morning appointment a bit so he could have a longer walk and may make your whole day smoother but if not possible don't worry about it - that is all he can get!)

Why so you have to take him home and then go on the school run? - can't you walk on the way and then take him with you?

Don't worry about your boys not enjoying a dog walk it is good for them and healthy exercise - they will thank you for it one day!

Puppies are really hard work. There are lots of very experienced trainers on here who have given very useful advice so hopefully that will help. I am not a trainer, but two things that kept me sane were:

1. Kitchen manners. An important thing for me is that my dogs will sit quietly in the corner of the kitchen when I am busy. It was one of the first things they learned. My training method will probably be frowned upon, but once they learned what 'bed' meant, if they got off it I picked them up and put them outside the back door into (a secure) yard for 5 minutes. When they came back in they stayed on their bed. Dogs aren't stupid - warm kitchen with people, or cold yard by themselves. No brainer.

1. Crate training. I will admit to sitting on the floor crying on occasions with my first pup, as I naively didn't use a crate. The second one I crated when I needed him to be safe because I was busy. It also helped massively with house training. He loves his crate, and still sleeps in it. He'd go nuts if another dog went in it. I love his crate too!

I do always wonder when I read your threads why you don't use your crate for Rollo a lot more. Makes me feel a bit guilty for using ours so much, but our pup (6.5 month springer) really doesn't seem to mind. I really cannot cope with 'counter surfing' at the same time as toddler tea, so he's in his crate before we start.

We've started clicker training at intervals throughout the day, which may be something you want to try. We also have problems with a sensitive tummy (though not as severe as Rollo) and 'treats' are just pieces of his boring kibble or popcorn, which works for him.

Ok then sorry if the details arent quite right.
so you have to leave the house at 7.15am
I would get up at 6, chuck rollo out in the garden and get everyones breakfast ready. take rollo for a quick 15min round the block walk on lead. have a five min training session, this will wear him out more than a 30 min walk.
If he goes in a crate I would gove him his food in the crate in a tug a jug (you seen them they look great) or a kong, or a treat ball, vary it. when you get back from the school run I would let him out of crate and let him out to toilet if he asks, but other than that no attention.
11-12, youare on the phone but can give him attenetion, do a bit of training, get him to stay someowhere for 5 mins while you make a phone call, hide some treats around and get him to find them, again vary it everyday so it is more stimulating, and not for n hour just five mins here and there.
2-3pm this would still be his main walk
4-bed time he would have to mooch around occasionally bits of training but mainly totally ignored, but not in a seperate room.
kids bed till my bed, just sat on the sofa with me. go out if needs, minmal play mainly cuddles.
I wouldnt put him to bed before I go, go up and get reay for bed then last thing after brushing teeth is letting dog out for wee.
I would not get up before I need to, he can wait till you say its time.

mainly apart from his 2 walks he should be able to mooch around after you, getting the occasional pat on the head but thats it.

an hour walk plus a shorter lead walk should be planty for a 10 month old ppup.

Also get the boys involved. Would they want you to rehome Rollo?

If they want him to stay they can help a bit - when you are preparing meals they can play tuggy with him or clicker train him - kids are usually better than adults at it. Or just let them brush him. Don't ask them - that is what happens if they want a dog.

We don't go on dog walks in our house - we just all go out - maybe geocaching, treasure hunts (looking for boring treasure eg oak apples - nothing prepared), making camps in woods, bike rides on cycle tracks, tea and scones in a cafe but they have to walk there first and the dogs just happen to come along to.

ralph never goes off lead, as his recall is shite. he gets 2x30mins on the school runs, then another quick walk when dh comes home from work. at weekends he gets more.

you are giving him too much attention, if he jumps at you to play then say no, ignore, and leave him to it in a safe area.

we have a treatball, if i need 30mins peace, then i use that with freeze dried liver in it [pukes]

use the crate more, stuff a kong and pop him in there wehn you are eating/doing something that means you need him in a safe palce.

ralphs domain is the hallway. its gated, he has the run of it, we dont use a crate anymore, but that its his safe place as well as his bed.

they dont need hours and hours of input and it doesnt have to be all walks iyswim. 10mins training learning commands, or fetch/seek in the garden etc (i hide smelly treats in the garden and he has to find them).

evenins are when ralph becomes my foot warmer no training, no walks after8pm, no playing. that is chill out time.

You have been given lots of good advice but I just wanted to add - do you think he may be over stimulated and over tired?

Our Lab, just turned 1, is really no bother for 90% of the time, but when he does decide to play up it's usually because we have over done it and wound him up. He's just like a tired toddler being really hyperactive because they are knackered.

Your day sounds exhausting for him, as well as you.

Loads of expert, helpful and supportive advice! Many thanks. Answers to some questions: Minimu, the reason I can't take Rollo on the school run is that I don't want to leave Rollo alone unattended inthe car for up to 30 mins whilst I walk from the street parking up long school driveway into school grounds (dogs not allowed), wait whilst DCs go back endlessly to cllect stuff they've left behind. Wouldn't feel Rollo would be safe or happy. So I drop him at home and then do school run.

Haven't come across tugajugs and will google them. Rloo gets all his meals in a food/ treat ball however and at lunchtime, I often give half his food as a game - throwing kibble up and down long room area for him to trot and fetch/eat - to give him more exercise and interest hime, especially if I'm on the phone at same time.

Re. crate use - I stopped using this except for nighttime as the trainer said he should have more free run of the house and I didn't want him to associate it with anything adverse like whilst rest of family together - he gets stuck in his crate.

Have tried to involve DCs with Rollo - to no avail! When I'm making supper, DCs are always doing homework so don't have time to play with dog.

DT1 originally wanted a dog, a bit - but neither wanted one nearly as much as I did and DT2 really really DIDN'T want a dog. Over time, DT1 has had less and less to do with Rollo, ignores him completely, really, and bitterly resents dog walks. Often our worst arguments are on w/e dog walks!

DT2 (with Asperger's traits) was really worried about having a dog and I feel massively guilty that I followed my own lifelong desire to get one when it's caused so much angst for the family. He tries to help out, eg if I really MUST leave the room for a few seconds and Rollo needs watching closely. The other day, he helped me teach Rollo to 'shake paws' and was delighted with this - but his input to Rollo is about 3 mins per week.

He just gets v upset on walks or if DT1 and I are arguing and is literally now phobic about Rollo getting diarrhoea again. He 'monitors' Rollo's poo and asks how it is every day and generally obsesses and worries all the time.

When Rollo DID have diarrhoea (and of course may well get this again when off his meds.), the absolute worst point was the day he was due to go and stay with the trainer when we were going away on our only hol. of the yr (DT2 gets hyper excited each yr as it's out only hol). It looked as if we wouldn't be able to go and DT2 was in tears and in shock really and has never been the same since then.

DTs wouldn't want to rehome Rollo - but that's more because they don't like the idea of someone else with 'our' dog. On the other hand, they've often wished he'd disappear out of our lives, naturally and peacefully. So it's really been me all along who wanted the dog and me who has to take full responsibility for the effect it's had on our family.

I'm sure 2 hrs extra of vigorous daily exercise must be doing me a lot of good however and the extra one hr for the DCs away from PCs must be good too. I'd never have 'made' time to exercise if I didn't have Rollo. I'm far far too busy! So he really helps in that sense.

I don't get any time to 'sit' at all, so I don't get any time really to just 'be' with Rollo (except on kitchen floor holding nylabones!!!) and by the time the DCs are in bed, I'm also in bed too. So there isn't really an evening time when I stop and relax after DCs are in bed. I just crash out in bed too then. I guess my day is 5am till 9pm instead of the usual 7am till 11 am - same hrs just shifted earlier.

Rollo tends to get sleepy around 7.30pm anyway and it's onbly 30 mins later he goes into his crate for the night. In the mornings, I actually sometimes wake him to fit in his bkfast and walk before I start work!

Well, he's due home in 30 mins. so this has been v helpful today to rejuvenate my motivation and belief in making this work for all of us and in not letting him rule our lives.

All I have to do now is put it into practice!

sometimes you just need to remotivate. I am like this with my chooks at the minute, when I was cleaning them out in the hale earlier, slipping over on the liquid mud lawn, did wonder why I just dont buy eggs from the supermarket, dh had to remind me that I love them really.

also remember this is the hardest stage IMO. no longer cute fluffball of pup, but almost fully grown dog with the mind of a pup and the stroppiness of a teen!

So I think I'm concerned that Rollo- after a night in his crate - basically has only 1.5 hrs attention, including 30 mins onlead walk - before having to resettle for another 3.5 hrs (7.30am till 11am).

I'm sorry but this really made me smile - it was exactly how I was with my PFB about breastfeeding and napping - I've got similar posts I made on Mumsnet at the time, totting up the number of hours between naps (to which the sage old-timer MN'tters told me to chill out!). You're overanalyzing and overthinking everything - I mean, the fact that you have even worked out the exact number of hours he has to settle by himself is, frankly, obsessive!

You seem convinced that lots of exercise = make him settled (in the same way I used to obsess that adjusting the timing/length of the last nap/last feed, would mean my baby would sleep through the night. It didn't, it made no difference). Have you tried not walking Rolo as much - it might have no effect on his behaviour (in which case you have scored yourself some extra time in your day) or it might actually improve his behaviour (as others have suggested, he might be overstimulated).

I hope you manage to sort this out so you can start enjoying life with Rolo more!

Just popping back on to wish you luck implementing all this

I've picked up some useful tips too...

minimuu, I laughed when I read your last post because (good advice as it is) I used to have a helluva time getting dd1 to go out on 'walks' disguised as just about anything else - yet she's always up for walking Mouse: total opposite

Solo - I think putting a photo of Rollo on your profile would really help (cos we could all see how gorgeous he is!).

Loads of fab advice. Also have a young dog with a seriously dodgy tummy and use all his food as treats or to keep him entertained. He almost never has his food in a bowl either has to work for it clicker training or it goes in his treat ball/kong wobbler etc. I work from home and he now knows that he gets no attention in the day if he asks for it, it is always on my terms. I do bits of training all through the day (with his regular food) then when I've finished I just say "all done" and walk off. Always entertains me when I am on an really important call and I've got a dog high fiving me, spinning round and walking backwards :o Also now he knows lots of tricks the dcs all ask to do dog training, good for entertainment for everyone!

solo, have you considered rehoming?

I agree with what Minimuu's been saying.

It also strikes me that the time you spend holding the Nylabone for him to chew would be better spent teaching him something useful like "Go To Your Bed/Place" - which would also, more than likely, knacker him more than the equivalent time chasing a ball. Mental stimulation is very tiring.

He does sound like a massively demanding dog.

Ours is almost 9 months, and is, and has been a doddle.

He went through an alarming couple of weeks of whizzing off at 100mph on walks, but that's about as hard as it has got.

I do believe, for both dogs and children, in a bit of benign neglect. As long as dogs are given lots of exercise and not left alone for long periods - they should slot in around you?

We all love our dog, so much, Dh has been away this week and the dog was the only one that got the extended 'oooh I missed you homecoming!' but he is, nonetheless, very much number 5 on our family pecking order.