Why does the doghouse have to be so critical and judgemental?

[minimu1]

My day is generally spent with dog ignorant people educating them on what is best for their dog.

When people post a thread on here showing their ignorance of dog issues they get slated, told they are lying and that the OP who is usually on the ground with the dog does not know what they are talking about. Moral and cruelty issues are banded about as if the OP has no idea that rehoming or PTS a dog is a horrendous situation - that is why they are asking for help after all.

I have been forceful on here (probably when I am in a bad mood and have regretted it) however it is necessary at times to make people see the importance of an issue but to personally slate the poster is not necessary.

I come on here as I can "do" dogs - I am able to help with training and behaviour so when people are struggling it is no issues to just pop on some advice.

Does the general tone of The doghouse have to be so unwelcoming and critical?

Oh dear, I haven't seen any recent threads so don't know the particular cases you are concerned about, but I do absolutely agree that the tone in the Dog topic has become very often (obv. not always) awful in just the ways that you say. To the extent that I have in large part given up on it.

It is a shame, because there is clearly a lot of dog expertise about among MNers.

Imo it only turns that way when posters are offered help and refuse to take it. Do you mean the thread I think you mean? The op has an offer of help, but has refused that help and is choosing to kill the dog instead. It's pretty hard not judge, although I don't think much judging has been done, to be fair. People are asking questions because they are trying to understand what the problem is and are then being accused of judging.

I had very little clue on how deal with problematic dogs when I first got Devil Dog, everything I know I've learnt from him, my trainers and asking advise on here when I was stuck. And Googling.

I never felt judged when I've asked for advise and I must have posted some pretty silly things in my time. I seem to remember my first post about him being along the lines of "Help me, my dog is viscous and has just bit my child" when he was not and did not.

no one particular thread but there have been quite a few recently that have left me feeling more than uncomfortable.

I have seen a few threads whereby I have thought ouch, however compared with AIBU I think this is a lovely part of mumsnet.

I have found people really kind and there are some of you who repeat the same advice over and over again which I think is really kind of you. I would be tempted to refer people to previous threads but a lot of you continue to advise and help us newbies.

I have done some really stupid things with my puppy and people haven't judged me but been kind and supportive.

DooinMeCleaning

Arrgghh no it WASN'T the OP who was choosing to kill the dog on the thread, the OP was not the dog's owner and DID NOT deserve the language that has been thrown at her over there. There were NO good alternatives given. The advised rescuer could not help the situation.

Totally agree Minimu1. The OP gets flamed/slated when asking a question and really just some good construction advice and understanding would go along way towards helping the situation. It's pretty unpleasant at times.

obviously constructive advice not *construction". That really wouldn't help would it.

Not just on here though - all animal welfare websites are full of very critical people. I posted on one about rabbits as we had 2 that mated (due to the vet incorrectly sexing them and then to cut a long story short, 2 more mated but again due to incorrect sexing. I have ended up with 8 rabbits which we struggle to afford but when I tried to access support, people were so judgemental and rude.

I can't afford to have them neutered so have them in 4 hutch and run combinations in the garden, seperated by sex. They are well loved and fed but could probably benefit from a bit more space and are not vaccinated or neutered due to costs. I ended up leaving the site due to the messages I got from people and the way they judged me.

It put me off contacting any rehoming orgnisations and so we have ended up keeping the lot sigh (they're very cute though!).

Completely agree about the underlying tone of the doghouse however I have posted with questions and received some great advice (from minimu and calamitykate in particular.) It seems such a shame that people are being put off.

i disagree the doghouse is unwelcoming and critical in general. i have seen lots of threads where posters have been patiently helped with things they should have thought about before rehoming a dog. they have come on here for help and have got it regardless of where or how they came to have a dog

i have even seen threads recently where posters needing to rehome their dogs have been given a lot of help and support. i do think it is amazing that the dog rescuers on here give up a lot of their time (on here and in RL to help people who have posted on here) to find a new home for a dog when it must go against their personal views of having a dog and looking after that for life (obviously there will be rare exceptions such as bereavement and ill health)

i think its unreasonable and unfair to expect people who care about animals not to be upset when someone ignores advice about the humane way to rehome an animal or when they post a healthy animal is going to be pts. it is upsetting when people ignore advice - whether advice given here or by PM. the people who ignore advice are hardly likely, unfortunately, to publicly talk about the help they have been offered via PM

"There were NO good alternatives given. The advised rescuer could not help the situation."

sorry, but that statement is factually incorrect

Minimu, actually I don't agree, and I strongly suspect I'm one of the posters you have in mind. The thread you're referring to is unusual in a lot of ways.

Unfortunately, we see very often on MN, the same old cliches being trotted out - I want a cute puppy that will play with the kids, if you get a rescue dog you don't know about their temperament etc etc. I am proud to say that I will consistently and persistently challenge these ideas. I have enormous respect for Midori - she has gone a long way to improve my perception of breeders, and she is one of the rare responsible ones. Meanwhile out there, every day, thousands of healthy dogs face the needle unnecessarily. Rescues struggle constantly to pick up the pieces. There is a necessary and healthy debate to be had about how we as a society treat those who are unable to speak for themselves, whether that is animals or children, or any other vulnerable, defenceless person. It's particularly important since our taxes go to fund much of the sanctioned killing of thousands of dogs by local authorities on behalf of us all, and those precious local authority budgets are stretched enough already. Irresponsible dog ownership has externalities - including noise nuisance (more cost to the local authority to resolve), dog mess, bites and intimidation, management of strays, diseases, worrying of livestock etc. Personally I'd prefer to see my local Council spending money on caring for the elderly or improving literacy rates.

If some straight talking about puppy farms can put even one person off buying a dog from some grim internet site, then I'm happy. And very often people think they want a pup, when they genuinely haven't considered a rescue dog or know any thing about them. Only a couple of days ago, we had the old perennial of "no rescue will rehome to a family with young kids so I MUST go to a breeder" - do you think we should that let that falsehood stand, so other families are put off?

I can think of lots of occasions when I've genuinely tried to help and support people, but I will not be silent when posters make lazy or ignorant posts about a subject on which I am knowledgeable and passionate, particularly when it is often a literally life or death matter.

Because you get a bit irritated dealing with liars, the deceitful, the hysterical, the uncaring, the cruel, the expectant, the demanding, the plain bloody stupid, those who ask for advice, get it and then ignore it and carry on moaning/threatening to kill their dogs, the abusive, the violent, the neglectful and the precious after a few years of being on the less pleasant side of dog the dog world. You want to try it.... you might see it from the other side then.

Thanks Scuttle, you put it all far more tolerantly and politely than I have but yep, that's pretty much how I feel too.

I must admit i used to love this section of MN , it was very informative when we had teething problems with our pup . I rarely go near here though these days after being made to feel like an idiot because i once asked for advice to stop my pup doing something that really worried me at that time . These days if i have any questions or need advice i go to my local pet store .
I would love to feel confident to ask questions on here again tbh .

Thunderbolt, perhaps you should stop suggesting that others stop posting.

But Scuttle you have already made assumptions as is so common on here
"The thread you're referring to is unusual in a lot of ways." I said there is NO ONE thread.

The assumption that only a few people recognise the heartache of the rescue dog community and that if you shout loudest or more emotively you will get heard is just so wrong.

People are just not asking for advice and will continue to make the same mistakes if they get slated just for asking.

Positive training works so much better on people than the positive punishment that is dealt out here.

I also post on a breed specific forum that has long term members who work in rescue. I don't see any of the frustration they feel coming through in their posts - they see it as being more important that the board is welcoming to everyone and provides support and advice in a sensitive and friendly way. It is a valuable skill to keep your feelings and frustration out of the way as much as possible.

I agree with you minimu.

I have had some fantastic advice on this topic, advice that I am in no doubt whatsoever has added considerably to my enjoyment of being a dog owner.

However the general tone of the topic is pretty grim a lot of the time. Lecturing, judgemental, sarcastic, angry. I can't remember the last time I laughed reading a dog's house thread. Even a year ago it was quite a fun topic amongst the more serious stuff.

For the most part now I have it hidden.

I've only had friendly, welcoming help on here so far (not got the dog yet, mind!).

But I have also occasionally thought that people are not always being treated as respectfully/kindly at times - only at times - as we want everyone to treat our dogs. It makes me sad, tbh, and it also makes me careful about posting - I do post, but I feel careful.

There are many other areas on MN that can make me feel like that from time to time, mind you

I love that people here give a chance to dogs that have been abandoned, abused, neglected. Sometimes, giving that chance means putting up with anti-social behaviour and re-training with patience and love. The same applies to humans....including people we might think are lazy/hopeless/idiots etc. Its always possible they are just exhausted/ignorant/stressed themselves.

I've worked with some of them, I've been one, I try not to judge or shame others. Though I DO get angry - thats not quite the same thing.

I'm not saying anyone should say 'there there it doesn't matter' to anyone mistreating a dog - of course not. I've learnt a lot from the anti-puppy farm threads, as much as I have from behaviourist threads, and I certainly don't have a problem with hearing from the front-line workers about how it is out there - much as I hate hearing it, its reality .

Also, I have no problem with people occasionally losing their tempers, expressing strong opinions, etc. As long as either they stay respectful or, as we can't all be respectful all the time (especially when upset, tired and rushed), come back and say sorry for losing it.

At the end of the day, I just think people are more likely to listen, learn, come back and work harder to become dog-friendly if they feel safe.

sorry, longwinded!!

Slubber, I see lots of fun threads here. We have lots of light hearted conversations about poo, collar shopping and various other fun aspects of dog ownership. Who could forget Empty's exploding dog poo bag, for instance, or Where the Wild Things Were stories about her whippet? In the same way AIBU covers everything from Tena Lady moments to serious issues about child abuse, say, or heavyweight discussions about feminism, along with silly threads about Take That. That's actually one of the things I like about MN.

I try very hard not to be too emotive - God knows, there's plenty to be emotive about. If I give facts, I will make damn sure they are documented, and am always happy to be corrected if factually wrong. I don't think I have ever accused anyone of lying - although I have asked about inconsistencies. That to me is fair, given that people can only help appropriately if they are given the full facts. I certainly don't see any "postive punishment" - there are actually two threads on here at the moment where people have either discussed giving up their dog or are in the process of doing so, and the overwhelming number of posts are constructive and helpful, and I'd say that's typical.

yy Scuttle, Wildy's lip gloss/fur thread was funny.

Didn't you think that on the recent big rehoming thread that it was pretty sad the number of posters who said they would NEVER come on here to ask advice?