Panorama: spoilt rotten

[Meglet]

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I agree, but it makes me mad and sad.

I also wondered what type of milk it was too. I gave my daughter whole milk at 12 months, then when she was 2 I changed to semi skimmed. Surely most people do that? There is no reason for kids over 1 to have formula milk is there? Their tummies can take cow's milk at 1. Plus I was also surprised to see older kids still having night time bottles. What's that all about? My daughter is 4 and I can't even remember when we stopped giving her a night time bottle, it was ages ago. She cleans her teeth morning and night and when we put her to bed we put a glass of water on the side in case she wakes up dry or coughing etc. If they are eating cheese, yoghurts and drinking milk then surely there is no reason for them to have a night time bottle anyway?

I live in this community and I have worked for two years as a student nurse in Alder Hey. Ive seen first hand the children who come in for tooth extractions. Unfortunatly parents dont always know what is good for their children. Ive heard people say they thorght they were being responsible giving their child Ribena rather than Coke. You might think how can they be so stupid, but to them, it stands to reason that it would be a healthy option because the adverts say it is full of blueberries. They will also often think that big brands such as Fruit Shoots must be okay because they cost more.

Ive nursed 13 year old girls who have had to be admitted over night for being so drunk. DD is 13 and knows of a group of her classmates who plan all week where they are going to get drunk. They will go without lunch to save money for alcohol. They see it as being grown up, to sit in the park drinking. In some ways, the kids who end up in Alder Hey are the lucky ones, as the Hospital has a counciling/education programme which children are refared to if they have been brought in drunk.

To be fair, the hospital is doing a very good job and has rolled out a lot of good programmes, its unfortunate that the programme didnt show more of this, but the whole idea of the programme was to show that a lot of money is being spent on preventative illness'.

Unfortunatly there was no mention of where parents could look if they wanted more information. It would have been nice if they had gone to some of the local Children's centre's, to show parents that their is places they can go which are doing great work to help improve children's health.

You can get tooth decay from milk it doesn't have to be formula. We got warned by our dentist not to give milk last thing at night always clean teeth last as milk has natural sugars in it.

A friend of mine only ever let her dc have milk or water to drink and her son got a couple of fillings. She was told it was the natural sugars in milk and water is basically the safest option for bedtime drinks.

The odd filling isn't quite the same as a mouth full of rotten teeth. That must be caused by other things too not just bedtime drinks. I also think the bottles themselves must be to blame as they keep the liquid in the mouth.

No child over 1 actually needs a bottle, it's pure lazy parenting. They can't be arsed to go through the initial upset of taking the bottles away so basically they just let them keep on having them. It's the same with too much food,tv,computer games,sweets,bad behaviour etc etc. Some parents just don't think they have any responsibility and want an easy life,they simple can't be arsed to get off their backsides and actually parent. They then expect the state to pick up the pieces in schools,hospitals etc. It really makes my blood boil,if we all parented in the same way it would be total anarchy.

I've taught in areas like this and you can throw whatever info,money you like at some parents and it won't make a jot of difference.

Just watched it on iplayer. Am really shocked at the amount of kids having teeth out. How do you let your toddler get to the point they need 7-8 teeth removing?

The mum with the obese son is in complete denial, there is no other explanation. Ok she feeds him healthy food, weetabix and fruit are a healthy snack but he had 2, I can only just manage 2. She seemed to think that the cake was tiny so that was ok, I agree it was a small portion. But to think that he could eat all that tea after a 'snack' is just daft, again it was almost an adult sized portion.
I know I think she is in denial but maybe that is a front and that is why she is blaming 'genes'

Thought it was a bit much to keep going on about the council estate factor. I live on a council estate and it isn't the nicest place to live. It doesn't stop me making sure my kids eat healthy and exercise. I also know that a lot of people on housing estates get a lot of govt support thrust at them to help end obesity and general bad health so why does the mum of the boy losing teeth through bottle use blame not enough information. she didn't know she shouldn't give him a bottle so long as no-one told her not to.

I've just watched this program and I'm so . even though I knew it happens! Dsis is social worker and has come across these kind of cases!

So angry and yet panicky. Must reduce juice consumption of dc and sweet snack consumption and brush teeth religiously!

I will not be responsible for my dc having to go through this sorta treatment. Also worried me the smoking angle. Dh smokes out window and I've told him affects dc and whatnot but will have yo labour point!!!

oh do pipe down with your lazy parenting rubbish. i don't want to take the bottle away from my eighteen month old child; it's really convenient for me, makes less mess and she enjoys it. i didn't take it away from my elder child either until she was at least two.

that's not lazy parenting, that's smart parenting. flapping all over the place at a sensationalist, judgemental and downright nasty episode of panorama that clearly has no basis in fact (oh yeah, like it was just a bottle of milk at bedtime that ruined a mouthful of teeth, rather than wholesale neglect) is downright dumb parenting, imo.

Also hate the phrase 'lazy parenting'. There is a place for taking the easy road sometimes, for compromise.

THis was just pure and utter neglect.

Haven't seen the programme but I'm also getting a bit panicky about the dried fruit, sweets and milk DS has. He;'s never eaten well, now he;s getting better I think I need to start making more of an effort to restrict this stuff

hate the phrase lazy parenting this programme showed neglect and sheer lack of responsibility, these children were not getting their teeth cleaned at all on top of all the rubbish food and drinks, So lets not panic please!!!!!!!!!

one of the never-addressed issues with all the govt information is the shockingly poor literacy levels among people who are now parents. there's a big difference between being able to manage to read take a break or whatever and actually sitting down to read a govt leaflet. and if mothers get a lot of attention from hvs or social workers etc they must get quite used to ignoring advice that they don't want to hear.

it's a massive overhaul of these women's self-image, their perception of their ability to cope and their aspirations for their children that is needed. not snarky, pissy 'documentaries' that they will never be watching in a million years.

But Aitch, how? How do you overhaul someone's self-image and aspirations? I get your point that there are fundamental causes here but how do you even begin to tackle them?

you might hate the term but they are in fact being lazy, there is a huge difference in taking the easy route and not bothering at all.

they are being neglectful, much worse than lazy. i would and do dispute that anyone giving a child a bottle after the age of one is a lazy parent.

there are courses, really interesting ones, seth, run by psychologists and counsellors at ss level (although held in local libraries, surestart centres etc) that invite mothers to attend and really start looking at the things that have shaped them. it's fascinating, and life-changing, and sets them up with a peer group who are all trying not to let the mistakes that their parents made be repeated. amazing, really. and cheap, given the expense incurred by troubled kids on the system.

of course the tories will cut all the funding when they get in. [

that sounds fab Aitch.
(and yes the Tories almost certainly would cut the funding.... but then there's a pretty fair chance Labour will as well )

I've always hated MIL getting up close with DSs after she smokes. Now I know I have to ask her not to for a while after she smokes a cigarette

There are so many groups accessible to parents now for all communities/social class. It is just plain neglect and ignorance to ignore the basic things a child requires.These people have much more money thrown at them than anyone else I know.It makes me so angry that they are constantly allowed to abuse not only their children but the NHS aswell.I dont know what the solution is but teeth cleaning and diet are basic in my opinion, its not rocket science.You do not need to be literate to do either.

yes, but being semi-literate affects sooooooo many things. can you get the right bus to the dentist? can you find your local dentist in the yellow pages? (if you can find an nhs one that is).

as you're going about your day, see what not reading or being unconfident wrt reading would exclude you from. here, for starters.

You may hate the phrase but neglect is an extreme form of lazy parenting as opposed to relaxed parenting. If your child's bottle isn't damaging his teeth then it isn't a problem, if it is and you still refuse to do anything about it because you can't be arsed and it's easier sorry but how is it anything other than lazy? At what point it becomes neglect and abuse I don't know.

And I agree with Ooonagh you don't have to be literate to clean teeth ensure your child is not obese. Many ,many people have literacy skills and don't inflict such problems on their dc.

I do think the courses sound good.I actually think access to parenting courses for all and not just the same groups of people that already get mountains of taxpayers money is really needed. I and several other mothers I know would have loved to go on one and couldn't find one anywhere.

I think the work children's centres do is fantastic and luring mums in with fun educational activities(open for all) then offering courses with a creche is a positive resource. Unfortunately I heard the Tories are planning to axe these too.

MilaMae, is it the children's centres or the courses and creches run at the children's centres that the Tories, according to what you have heard, will be axing?

The children's centres .

One of our local leaders told me they're all worried about their jobs. Apparently the tories want to increase hv's instead.

We were due a new one being built in our town,the one in the town next door has been fantastic,really fantastic. The stuff they do through the holidays,the courses they run,the groups everything has been superb. I was on the parents forum setting ours up and they really did listen to the needs of the local community. We wanted courses on budgeting and healthy eating-we got it. As a childminder too I couldn't fault the services they provide,they even set up a childminders group which meets weekly.

I'd heard rumors elsewhere too but I can't find out anything concrete.To be honest I'm surprised there hasn't been more of a fuss about it on here so wonderinghoping if the lady I spoke to had got her facts wrong.

i hate the term because it's a bullshit daily mailish term. if you want to accuse people of neglect, do so. if you want to insult everyone who hasn't done what you do as a parent, call them lazy...

Just heard today from a friend who has a coleague(sp) who knows Macauley's family, his dad is a drug dealer which is why he didnt appear on the programme.

No wonder she see's no wrong in drinking vodka. At least thats legal

Oh its all so so sad.I still think that the parents were abusive rather than lazy. Lazy is too mild a term in my opinion. If you can consider the pain of one cavity if you have ever experienced it.........then imagine the pain a toddler would experience with a mouth full of "rotting" or "rotten" teeth opposed to one cavity.
The obese boy was only 5 the same age as my Dd1.His mother is killing him physically and emotionally. He will grow up bullied which was already happening at school, lack of confidence/esteem. Might even become agrophobic and he will die of a heart attack by the time he is 20,if he even reaches 20.
The boy drinking a bottle of vodka a week at 13 well that was neglect, he will be dead by the time he is 16.