Dispatches programme about children learning maths

[ItNeverRainsBut]

Anyone watch this Dispatches programme on Channel 4 last night?
The Kids Don't Count

Quite shocking that when they gave the teachers the test aimed at 11-year-olds, they scored and average 45%!

I saw the prog.

There is a real problem that primary teachers are often not confident in math themselves - only need equiv GCSE grade C and can resit as many times as needed. My experience was slightly different. I worked as a TA in a Y6 class where the teacher was VG at maths - and poor at English so spelling, grammar etc was poor. Her teaching of writing styles etc was so mechanical too, as she had no natural flair for the subject. I am a sec Eglish teacher by profession so found it all quite frustrating.

I have to say, as a general rule and in my experience only , primary teachers are not as bright as sec teachers. There are still a great many primary teachers who took a BEd and got onto he course with a couple of D or E grades at A level.

it was depressing. the fact that so few of them knew how to divide fractions ffs

I'm watching this programme now on 4od and I'm actually crying.
I'm a failure when it comes to maths. I left primary school with a level 4 in my SATS but i honestly think my school must have been extra generous marking papers because I didn't have a clue what most of it was about.
In secondary school I was in the middle set and took the intermediate paper. I got an E. Since then I've attempted to take my GCSE maths twice and I've left the class twice due to not grasping anything.
I'm not a stupid person. I graduated last year with a 2.1. I know that some people are better than others at certain subjects but the deficit in my knowledge of mathematics is shocking.
Last year when I attempted my Maths GCSE for the last time it was at my university. The course was an access course for people wanting to go to university the following year (I was the odd one out). The majority of the class were doing this maths course (and an English on in the evening) in order to get on the primary school teaching course. The pass mark was just 40% and the class was based mainly on coursework. So many people cheated by getting their husbands to do the coursework. I could have done the same thing as maths is DP's 'thing' however it would still leave me in the same place of struggling with maths. These are the people who are becoming teachers!
Instead of focusing on GCSE level maths Im going to go back to basics and start from the beginning. You can't run before you can walk.

p.s. I haven't got a clue how to divide fractions. That is depressing.

sorry muffin.

Wow muffin, how young are you to have taken SATs at primary school?

it is a downward spiral. i think maths is as important as literacy. but dd's school don't. i am going to have to supplement dd's primary education so she doesn't spend the rest of her education feeling like muffin

To divide fractions you invert and multiply

So 1/2/divide by 1/4
becomes 1/2 times 4/1
1x4 = 4
2x1 = 2

answer = 4/2 = 2

I thought it was really sad when the headmaster was talking about his own education and not getting maths at primary school and when HIS teacher asked him why he hadn't asked questions in class he said he had but the teacher just repeated what he had already said but louder.

tbh i don't understand how people cope daily with such poor maths. (not judging! but it must be quite stressful)

I agree that maths has less emphasis in this country than reading at the early stages (reception/Year 1), but is equally important. People are happy to have a reading book a night, but unhappy if you add a maths worksheet to that. However maths, like reading, is something which needs to be practiced to master. Additionally, it needs to be taught in a two pronged approach - both rote memorization and the theory behing, in order to truly be mastered. No wonder Kumon is doing such a cracking trade!

I'm 22. I left primary school in 1998. Left secondary in 2003. Left college in 2005. Left university in 2009 (4 year course, Scotland).

I feel I have been cheated out of a good education. I left school with only 4 and 1/2 GCSE passes. I went to a 'failing' college which tried to 'pick up the pieces' of the children who had been left behind. I really am grateful to them. I got a part time job whilst doing my A Levels and paid for private tuition for an hour every week. My tutor taught me concepts I should have learnt in year 8/9 (even things from primary school). At school we were never taught grammar, I was confused by the most basic of concepts. I know have a degree in Linguistics.

Above all I'm angry. I remember Tony Blair's speech in 1997. I was 10. "Education, Education, Education." Where was mine?

muffin you are v. impressive. i understand your anger.

re. kumon, i am tempted to send dd but worry it would be too much.

Oh crap, now not know

Muffin, dividing fractions does trip many people up. To get the basic principle, instead of hearing the word 'divide', try thinking of it in a different way.

eg: when you see the sum 8 &divid; 2, you would have no trouble realising that this actually means 'how many twos in eight', ie the answer is 4.

When you see 1/2 &divid; 1/4 then, think 'ahah, this means how many quarters in a half' - answer, two.

Once that's understood then the method I was taught at school can be used (they probably teach a different one now.)

1/2 &divid; 1/4 - as it is a division sum, invert the second fraction and change the operation from divide to multiply - so the sum now reads 1/2 x 4/1. This works out to 4/2 which you can reduce to 2, which we know is correct.

Gherkin beat me to it by a long way I see sorry Gherkin! x-post

i think that maths especially at primary level isn't 'specialist knowlege' teaching. too many teachers graduate without a grasp of the basics, they shouldn't be passed as they then pass down their gaps and inadequacies

Just watched it.
Very depressing. Among other things I think it highlights how destructive SATs testing is.

not 'especially at primary' - meant just at primary

it's depressing that they are able to teach if not competent. the programme made me very angry. my ds(8) is failing with maths but since a new headteacher has started he is now catching up.

why can't all primary schools have one dedicated maths teacher who will solely teach maths? looking forward to part 2.

It doesn't surprise me. I was never even taught my tables at school. Luckily both my parents are maths bods so I had a hope.

I've recorded this but not watched it yet. The thing I'm really concerned about is how the basics are not drummed in and learnt properly before moving onto the next thing? Times tables are something that I use on a daily basis but it seems to be my job now to make sure the DCs know them. Presumably then, those children whose parents don't take an interest will be in increasingly big trouble?

DD has just been taught fractions in Y2 - WHY?? She's not bad at maths but this completely floored her - lots of "I'm rubbish at maths" and DH and I trying to explain them to her. It just seems totally wrong to me.

i'm going to teach ds fractions using a pizza - he wouldn't understand invert and multiply a pizza cut in halves and quarters he would i imagine.