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Dispatches programme about children learning maths

222 replies

ItNeverRainsBut · 16/02/2010 08:10

Anyone watch this Dispatches programme on Channel 4 last night?
The Kids Don't Count

Quite shocking that when they gave the teachers the test aimed at 11-year-olds, they scored and average 45%!

OP posts:
TiggyR · 17/02/2010 12:23

Haven't had time to read whole thread so sorry if I duplicate anything already pointed out, but:

I have just watched it this a.m. (SKY +) I found it really sad/frustrating that so few of the teachers had a decent standard of basic arithematic. But then they were mostly of my generation, and I was always abysmal at maths though I was quite bright (and sometimes very bright) in other things. I could totally identify with not being able to grasp the asbract concepts in maths, and it would have helped me SO much to have had the physical props/movements and associations to reinforce the rules. I think so many of the new-fangled teaching styles through the 60's to 80's were rubbish, and have let down a whole generation.

The trouble is in primary education the teachers are expected to have a passable ability at all subjects, rather than exceptional ability at just one or two. Most people with a real bent for maths will opt for senior teaching where thay can enthuse about their subject. Perhaps we should be looking at the two core subjects being taught by specific subject teachers from reception onwards. Maybe one dedicated maths teacher per primary school who doesn't have his/her own class full-time but who goes from class to class on a rota basis overseeing all the maths lessons. Whenever I've tried to help my kids with maths I always try to use visual aids. (but I'm still crap!!!) I just googled Mr Dunn's product (the blue and yellow 'maths makes sense' boxes they tried (half-heartedly to blank out in the picture, as it's obviously product placement for his school resources business!) I'd really like to buy it but it's £195 as it caters for up to fifteen kids. They also do teaching workshops. I wish they'd do a smaller parent friendly version for use at home. I might email them and suggest that.

My 10 year old DS is in a private school and they use dedicated subject teachers just like in senior school, from year 5 onwards. That's the kind of reassurance that makes paying worthwhile.

coldtits · 17/02/2010 12:27

yeah....

this is why kids hate maths.

it's complex, and boring.

coldtits · 17/02/2010 12:30

but if you DIVIDE something, you are chopping it into pieces! How can that make it bigger than it already is?

claig · 17/02/2010 12:31

coldtits, it's fascinating and fun. It is the pinnacle of thinking. Once you see it, it is a Eureka moment and is great fun

claig · 17/02/2010 12:35

if you divide by 2 you make something smaller. If you divide by 2, you are taking a half of something i.e. you are multiplying by 1 divided by 2 (i.e. multiplying by 1/2).
If you divide by 1/2, you make something bigger. This is because dividing by 1/2 is the same as multiplying by 1 divided by 1/2 (i.e. multiplying by 1/(1/2) ) and 1 divided by 1/2 is 2, so you are really multiplying by 2, which makes it bigger.

coldtits · 17/02/2010 12:36

I've never had a Eureka moment with maths. I've only ever had "thank FUCK this topic is over" moments.

I have some things I am quite good at (basic arithmetic) but when numbers aren't talking about objects any more, I'm lost.

Feenie · 17/02/2010 12:37

I think it's ludicrous that trainee teachers can sit the Numeracy test over and over again. There should be a limit of two attempts, perhaps.

There was a thread on here not so long ago where a trainee teacher couldn't pass it. She wouldn't accept any warnings regarding the level of mental maths she would be required to perform in front of Y5 and Y6 children on a daily basis, and insisted she could manage without passing the test. I don't think she did in the end though.

They didn't even have the test when I trained - showing my age now.

There

Feenie · 17/02/2010 12:38

Where did that 'there' come from?

claig · 17/02/2010 12:39

coldtits, it's not hard if it is taught well. It becomes clearer the more different ways you look at the problem. It is poor teaching that makes people give up on maths.

claig · 17/02/2010 12:42

Feenie, I'm interested to know if trainee teachers have to pay for the test out of their own pockets. I sometimes wonder whether it is a money making scheme, like a hidden tax. Do you know if the test is free, or do trainees have to pay?

Feenie · 17/02/2010 12:43

I have no idea - I'll try to find out. I would bet it's free, though.

claig · 17/02/2010 12:46

thanks I am interested in that, because so many stealth taxes are sneaked in like this

Feenie · 17/02/2010 12:46

Can't find any mention here of any cost.

moomaa · 17/02/2010 12:47

I did have a go at the online test and think that the teachers complaining that it is not all year 6 stuff are totally missing the point. All Junior teachers should be able to do all of them in five minutes. I would have little respect for any Junior school teacher that couldn't. Have do they deal with that agile 5% in each year group whose minds leap and bound through maths intuitively?

Both DH and I both felt that all primary teachers we had experienced when at school would have been able to do it. One primary teacher friend I have discussed this with thinks many he knows would fail it

coldtits · 17/02/2010 12:49

I remember being incredibly angry at my maths teacher for GCSE

I was in top science, Top English, Top French and second stream everything else, on middle stream Maths. I was a diligent pupil, yet he constantly accused me of not listening, not trying and not paying attention. I cannot have been that hard to teach!

Out of all the pupils in his class, only 3 out of 30 passed the GCSE at C or above. one of those was me, but I admit it really was a close shave. I neglected all my other revision to revise for maths, but in the end, my teaching from 11 - 14 saved me, as I had the basics sorted out. NOTHING from 14 - 16 had stuck at all. I might as well have sat and smoked in the sixth form common room (still allowed in 1996, can you believe it???)

coldtits · 17/02/2010 12:51

i think maths teachers should get paid more. It's an unmotivated class most of the time. It's easy to excite people about Music or History, even if they aren't good at it, but if you aren't good at maths, until you get a truly inspirational teacher, you feel crushed with boredom.

claig · 17/02/2010 12:51

thanks Feenie, I am glad that there is no fee

senua · 17/02/2010 12:56

It's sad that you never had a eureka moment in Maths, Coldtits. Imagine saying "I've never had a eureka moment in Art. I've never looked at a painting and thought that is beautiful and sublime"

Re the dividing thing: a handy short-cut is to remember that if you divide something by a-number-bigger-than-one then you make that something smaller (eg 1 divided by 2 is a half). But if you divide your something by a-number-smaller-than-one then you make that something bigger (eg 1 divided by a half is 2)
HTH

claig · 17/02/2010 12:57

agree coldtits, in maths there is no hiding, you either get it right or wrong, and if you get it wrong, you can start to lose confidence. But a good teacher will be able to show pupils how to think logically in order to get it right. That is when the real pleasure of maths kicks in, when you manage to solve a problem that at first sight seemed impossible. That gives a real buzz, the harder the problem, the greater the buzz. It is similar to the buzz you get when cracking a crossword or any complicated puzzle. Once you are on a roll, you can't wait to attempt the next problem. Your confidence increases and the great thing about maths is that it is teaching you how to think, it is training your mind in ways that will be useful in all other aspects of your life. The problem itself is not important, it is the thinking that is the real benefit of maths.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/02/2010 13:21

ok if you have a quarter of a pizza and you are dividing it into 2, the question you are not being asked is what size is each piece of pizza do you now have? The question is, how many slices of pizza do you have? The answer to that is 2 slices. Dividing is all about many lots of something you have.

megapixels · 17/02/2010 13:32

Coldtits, if you take 1/2 a pizza and divide it into quarters (imagine the shape of a quarter segment of pizza) how many pieces do you get?

coldtits · 17/02/2010 13:41

Megapixels - 4. If you divide something into quarters, then you have 4 of them

BBk - I can see how chopping a quarter of a pizza in half will result in two pieces of pizza (albeit small ones)

sarah293 · 17/02/2010 13:44

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megapixels · 17/02/2010 13:44

No but you are not dividing a whole pizza into quarters remember? You are dividing 1/2 a pizza into quarters. How many do you get then?

is determined to make coldtits see it

sarah293 · 17/02/2010 13:50

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