Torchwood!!!!

[differentID]

yippee!! on now.

I dunno, look at what has happened in the past. In countries where the children of local women and occupying soldiers have been the victims of prejudice, for instance (Norway?). During the conflict in the former Yugoslavia.

When people are scared for their own, they might well look the other way when someone else's child is being threatened. Or when times are hard, people can be swayed by evil regimes into seeing certain categories of society as scum, who deserve ill-treatment. Not just WW2. Gypsies in modern-day Eastern Europe, people with learning disabilities in many different societies...

Except this would be higher numbers of enraged people? - At least 10%...and not just parents fuelled with hate and vengenace but extended family too...

In our so called 'democracy' we cede our rights for autonomy and self rule in exchange for the rule of law and certain constraints upon our free will - in return for the protection and security that the state can offer us. I think a violation of this code would have unimaginable consequences.

And sacrificing children is a big taboo

(My last but one post was a bit all over the place )

hmc, the code of the rule of law is violated in ways both overt and covert all the time. Sinking of the Belgrano? Iraq war? Extraordinary rendition? Police beating up strikers and/or protesters? The list is endless.

More importantly, such violations are excused or otherwise go through for exactly the reasons that was portrayed here - some threat, real or imagined, is used as the excuse to permanently erode just one more civil liberty. And that no matter how it ends up, some politician will try to spin it so it's not his/her fault.

As an allegory for "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" it was a bit heavy-handed but intriguing nonetheless. How far would our government go to save their own butts even if it means sacrificing huge numbers of the population?

Earthymama-nah, its not the end of Torchwood.. They'll find new recruits from somewhere (Lois & maybe the Nasty Assassin lady). BTW Jim may be dead but he's still around (Ghost Whisperer). .

Sinking of the Belgrano - a travesty but not quite on the same scale as this fictional plot

Iraq war - one nation, with a history of suppression and brutality (so people there tragically used to injustice and ill treatment)...lacking the sense of rights and entitlement that perhaps we in the west are used to (and privileged to enjoy)

This, however, would be a whole different quantum

hmc, of course you're right - this is a whole different scale. But again, we know that our government has perpetrated some awful things and lied about them, as have many other governments down the ages.

So how far would our government go, if they felt it was justified? Where is the line that we could be sure they would never cross?

Easy Snorbs. As long as long as it doesn't affect them & theirs, there is no line. Period. So back to Torchwood & fiction. Or should that be fact where the government was concerned?

midlandsmum, I'm inclined to agree. You don't get to be a top politician by being worried about little things like morals.

Thanks for the summary - I can now get on with the rest of my life! You have now idea how frustrating it was yesterday trying to find out what happened!

finally got to watch the final ep last night. Oh boy I sobbed through most of it (can I blame hormones?)
My questions:
When the buses were driving away with the children wouldn't you jump in your car and follow? Big Yellow buses can't be that hard to spot surely?
Frobisher and his gun... hole up in the house and shoot anyone who tried to get in... not the wife and kids. That was awful. Three bangs, pause, fourth bang.

The thing that DH tried to cheer me up with, was the fact that there would be NO WAY our government would be compitant (sp?) enough to organise that scale of operation.
Didn't stop me climbing in bed with the DSs for a cuddle while I tried to cry quietly.

I like your dh's objection, sockmonkey. Also wondered where they'd get all the buses from. A fleet of yellow buses with no operator's name on the side, available instantly and nationwide...? I know you have to suspend your disbelief but was slightly reassuring that that point was clearly fiction.

And how come the permanent secretary of whatever department of state was such a crack shot?

And in the news today:

NHS prepares to vaccinate entire population against swine flu

Yeah, right

Come back, Jack!

Ah Jules amde me laugh too LOL

i thought- well yes as long as DH comes and there's no bus involved

PMSL

One thing I didn't quite get: if they all thought it was so horrific to sacrifice 10% of children for the good of the world, why was it OK to sacrifice Steven for the children?
And I didn't like the ending. It was one of those awful DW endings where they do something technical that no-one understands and it all ends happily.

it wasn't ok though, that was the point. It was the only choice left to safeguard the world. it has cost Jack everything he held dear.

Peachy- fabulous summary!
I read an interview with Cap'n Jack and he is most miffed at having to do the 5 episodes in one week thing- says it seemed as though it was Torchwood on trial- they had 5 days to make something utterly fabulous or run the risk of not being re-commissioned. It didn't say whether it was continuing or not, I don't think (will go and dig paper out of recycling bin in a mo)

They could carry on (without -sob- Ianto) of course...maybe not Torchwood Miami but Torchwood Margate might be nice.

Maybe they can work on staying a bit more secret this time...what's the line they start with - above the law, beyond the govt..by the bay...left at Next and yer there.

Bucharest - I heard that too. He was complaining that they had made the move from BBC3 to BBC2 then when they got the chance to go on BBC1 they only got 5 eps instead of the usual 12. He said it felt like they were being punnished.

Still, I kinda hope it does come back, but back to the humour. This last week has been so dark and upsetting. Sci-fi is supposed to be escapist.

I've just read that Russell T davis is going to live in Hollywood, so it looks to me as if Torchwood as indeed gone out with a bang.

Did RTD actually say who was taking over Torchwood from him?

this is the article I saw. A BBC spokeswoman says it's too early to say if Torchwood will return, and they will be looking at the ratings.

Doesn't sound hopeful at the moment. Fingers crossed. Interesting that it says that it stars Eve Myles, not JB.

Just to come back to the question a few pages back of whether he could have sold the idea separately from "Doctor Who".

In fact, RTD came up with the idea for a bunch of sexy alien-fighters a good few years ago - possibly, I think, before the return of Who was mooted and certainly before the involvement of Barrowman.

I don't know how many of the characters would have been the same, but I know it was going to be called "Excalibur" at that stage, and the once scene which survived from that version almost intact is the very first one from series 1 with a young policewoman watching a group of figures in dark coats reviving a murder victim with the Glove Of Revitalising And Doom.

Don't know why it didn't come off. Possibly TV wasn't ready - the climate was a lot less SF/fantasy friendly in the late 90s/early 2000s. Practically all the BBC did was "Invasion Earth" and "Crime Traveller" and they were underwhelming. ("Life On Mars", initially called "Ford Granada", had the same problem when they failed to sell it to C4 - an idea ahead of its time in 1997.) But when Who came back he dusted the idea off and gave it a re-spray, and linked in all the Who elements.

Just thought you'd all find that interesting!