louis theroux- peadophiles in therapy

[ra29needsabettername]

Anyone going to watch - looks interesting?

Agree with custardo. Sex crimes against children are abhorent and intolerable,but then so is murder.

If as a just society we agree that people are sentenced to a certain period of time for a crime then we should also agree that once that time is served the person is free.

If we feel that the majority of perpetrators of child sex crimes cannot/will not change and will continue to offend then we should change the justice system to either sentence them to life or agree to whatever is deemed necessary to allow them to reenter society without posing a threat to children.

I thought the programme was interesting because it brought up this dilemma which I had never thought about before and I feel Louis did a reasonable job of straddling the fence enough to allow discussion with the inmates whilst making his disgust for their crimes clear.

Agree with mp though about the therapist, surely regardless of circumstances people are allowed to express personal preferences about being in the company of other adults.

kind of rookie

ime he was typical child abuser

arrogant egotistical and thought himself above reproach

therefore did not like people in authority

It seems to me that some kind of preventative measures need to be put in place rather than just action after a paedophile has committed a crime.

There must be significant number of men who are paedophiles but who never offend.
These men are not criminals.

I think at schools adolescent pupils should be told as part of their sex education that some people have sexual feeling for children.

They should be told that if they are experiencing these feelings that there is help available and crucially not to be ashamed as it is not their fault.

At the moment any young person having these terrible feelings has no where to turn.
They know they will be despised and hounded for the rest of their lives, which can only drive them to further isolation and into a mindset where they are more likely to offend.

These people are not isolated since the advent of the internet - far from it. I concede it's not a choice but can't see a realistic way of tackling the issue and keeping children safe except to segregate them. Not ideal either -the institute on the theroux programme was chilling in many ways but what else do you do?

My only comment is that for a documentary it seemed thin on actual fact.

I would have been interested in actual stats to back up the louis ing. Facts such as...

How long has the scheme been operating ?
How many convicted offenders have been through the pilot scheme ?
How many of them were allowed back into the community ?
What are the reoffending stats on those who have been through the programme ? How do those stats compare to the reoffending rates of those who have been released back into the community directly from prison ?

The subject matter (of rehabilitation and the exploration of whether it is possible to rehabilitate and reintegrate paedophiles back into society) had the potential to be interesting and informative. Instead it felt a bit like a gratuitous gawkfest and an opportunity for Louis to present himself as the 'voice of the people' whilst being unbearably smug and persistently irritating.

Fleeting I completely agree with you. As society the way it is now who on earth would come forward and say they had these feelings?
I'm actually really amazed and pleased to see how thoughtful many MNers are about this. I kind of thought everyone would be part of the they are evil brigade.

Well rape fantasies are apparently pretty common both in men and women. Thoughts and feelings are very different to actions. Allowing people to talk about these and get help without being judged seems obviously preferable to them keeping them to themselves to avoid judgement.

Raping people or molesting children is absolutely terrible and life shattering. Obviously I do not ever think it is in anyway anything other than terrible.
That does not mean we should not try and understand how and why some people do these appalling acts. People can not help what they fantasize about. Sometimes things that are frightening can become sexualised for example.

I think that the main problem here is that so many people seem hell bent on protecting and trying to understand the "offender" and not enough time and effort is being spent on these poor child victims

If it were your child who had been abused would you still be saying it's not their fault???

I think it's disgusting to say they can't help it or they didn't choose it!

Like many others have said, yes they may not have chosen to be attracted to children but they DO choose to act on that. It doesn't matter how long a sentence they serve, if they haven't had any form or rehabilitation and there is no form of follow up, well no actual PROPER follow ups and not just the odd, "where are you living now" then these people WILL carrying on reoffending and IMO it would be better for the welfare and safety of the younger generation of whatever country they're in, to remain locked away.

'That does not mean we should not try and understand how and why some people do these appalling acts. People can not help what they fantasize about. Sometimes things that are frightening can become sexualised for example. '

I understand why the man who raped me did what he did, ra29. Because he'd somehow got the idea that when women said no, they didn't mean no, because he wanted to dominate and control people who were less able to defend themselves. Because he'd rather give in to that desire than into self-control.

And I was an adult!

You want to see how a 'child molester' completely and utterly destroys someone's life?

Watch 'The Woman Who Married the Eiffel Tower'.

Then tell me how much sympathy we need to be having for adults who rape children.

Oh, and btw, I think anyone who downloads and watches child porn is as guilty as the people in the videos who did what they did to those kids.

I really and truly do.

I'm sick and tired of hand-wringing over these people.

Some of them had a bad childhood. Some of them, however, have not.

All of them I have encountered are average-or above intelligence people, not impaired, who are the world's most manipulative and cunning liars who prey upon the world's most vulnerable people and it makes me sick.

I have to say at this point that if there is an underlying personality disorder they may not be able to choose - precisely why it is a 'kindness' to all to keep these perpetrators away from society for life.

Bloody well said expat

"All of them I have encountered are average-or above intelligence people, not impaired, who are the world's most manipulative and cunning liars who prey upon the world's most vulnerable people and it makes me sick"

Also agree with this. The man who abused me from the ages of 12-16 was exactly that

Maybe I should just go see if he is ok and needs a hug?

here is a man who 'molested' children.

Do you want to know how Miss Hamilton's mother died? She committed slow suicide by drinking, and all the while Peter Tobin knew damn well what had happened to her 15-year-old daughter.

He'd been freed, for the rape and attempted murder of 14- and 15-year-old girls in Plymouth.

One of them fell into heroin addiction and prostitution to support her habit after what happened to her.

As a child.

There's no understanding for her. So why should we be wringing our hands over the likes of Peter Tobin?

The point is dittany and expat, that an effort should be made to reach these people before they offend.

The fact is some people are born with or develop abhorrent urges. If these people can be identified and counselled at an early age it may stop them ever acting on their urges.

As a society why aren't we doing anything to address this problem? We are letting paedophiles offend and then stopping them retrospectively. It is too late by then.

Exactly, izy. They need locked up. For the sakes of their victims and potential victims and themselves.

But sorry, I reserve my sympathy for their victims.

'We are letting paedophiles offend and then stopping them retrospectively'

Explain how we are supposed to be intervening without breeching someone's human rights?

IME, and admittedly it was 5 years in the criminal justice system but I'm starting an access course in the Autumn so hopefully it'll be more later on, once an offender is actually caught and brought to court for such offenses, statistically, he's been offending for a while.

Because not everyone who harbours such inclinations acts on them, and not everyone who is a paedophile has been abused.

'The idea that there are all these poor non-offending paedophiles out there is laughable. '

It is all too often an idea that they, not being stupid, use to their advantage to gain what it is they desire.

It is called grooming for a reason. It is a slow strategy of persuation, of manipulation.

'Explain how we are supposed to be intervening without breeching someone's human rights?'

By including the notion of paedophilia in the sex education of teenagers at school.
By having a route for people to go down that isn't about hiding their feelings and pushing them to the most isolated point which is when they are most likely to offend.

'The idea that there are all these poor non-offending paedophiles out there is laughable.'
It is not laughable, it is in fact the case. All paedophiles are non offending until they offend (obviously).
They are only criminals when they offend. Society should be doing something to stop them offending the first time.

It is a total no-brainer to me.

Okay, Fleeting. I take your point. Fair enough.

What do we do with those who have already offended?

What do we do with people who have been given that education and still act on their inclinations?

I think the protection of society has to be the primary factor when dealing with paedophiles who have offended. If they are still a danger they obviously must not be released.
I actually think the facility seen in the tv programme is probably the best solution.

Yes Fleeting that is exactly what I thought 'the best place for them.'