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Telly addicts

Anyone watching CH4 tonight, about freebirthing?

238 replies

flubdub · 09/07/2008 20:44

Its on at nine.
Its about women that give birth at home, alone with no midwife, and no medical interventio.

OP posts:
nkf · 10/07/2008 07:14

I imagine they were all mad one way or another. If something had gone wrong and the baby died, would they be prosecuted? Did the programme have anything to say about the legal position?

squeaver · 10/07/2008 07:38

Watched this on and off last night with a very cynical head on and the polar opposite experience of all the women featured (planned c-section, breech).

Have to admit I was moved by and a little envious of the first, silent birth (Cleo was it? the woman in Wales with the strange forehead). Although interested to learn on here that she is actually a doula - I guess that kind of spoiled the storyline fro Ch 5.

But, overall, these women are mad. Especially the ones who have had no check-ups, no scans. The word I'm going to use is selfish. Caring more about "their" birth experience than the health of the baby and any damage that could be done to their child.

I also can't see why anyone would want their elder dcs at the birth.

Don't get me wrong: I know lots of people who have had very positive home births and we all know that the support just isn't there for so many people in this country. But, still, mad.

Btw, I thought the exchange between the American woman and the doctor was a classic. Talk about passive-aggressive

"Well what do you want us to do?"
"Well what do you want to do?"
"Well you haven't let us do anything up till now, so are you sure you want us to do anything?"

FrannyandZooey · 10/07/2008 08:30

You might as well ask if you had a car accident and your baby died, would you be prosecuted

we all make decisions based on our judgements and perceptions of risk, every day

nobody lives a risk free life or can ensure one for their children
many decisions about risk are made either blindly (following what everyone else does) or from personal convenience (choosing to travel by car even though being on the road carries an element of risk)
that doesn't make the person making the decision immoral or criminal

sherbetdipdab · 10/07/2008 09:05

I thought that although the American doctor came across as quite hostile I wondered what had happened when they arrived at the hospital and what had been said by the girl and her family.

Also was wondering about the American girl as I didn't see the start, did she have fetal alcohol syndrome?

littleducks · 10/07/2008 09:09

Ok so I watched the first half on the channel 5 on demand, was very slow and disjointed, am finishing the second half that i recorded when i saw this thread.

Birth in wales was very impressive.

Rosaline · 10/07/2008 09:09

I thought freebirthing was selfish and reckless before watching the programme and thought it was selfish and reckless afterwards as well.

nkf · 10/07/2008 10:06

Well, if I had a car accident and my baby had been lying on the back seat, not in a car seat and not secured in any way at all, and died in the crash, I would expect people to think that I had been reckless and immoral. As to criminal, probably not although some people might argue that I could be charged with negligence.

thumbwitch · 10/07/2008 10:11

BabiesEverywhere, you misunderstand me - the bleeding was post-partum. The only reason it was for 7 hours is because the medical team were doing everything they could to try and stop it - if she had bled like that at home and no one was with her, she might well have been unable to get to a phone to call for help and could have exsanguinated (and died) in a very short space of time.

DartmoorMama · 10/07/2008 10:19

its available on the channel 5 website on demand service. You have to register and possibly download a plug in then its under documentaries.

RegenerAitch · 10/07/2008 10:19

i think you would be prosecuted if the child wasn't in a car seat, wouldn't you? unless you're referring to the scans alone, frank, there i think 's'up to them'. mind you, i suppose cardiac problems etc can be diagnosed early.

reethi96 · 10/07/2008 10:22

I only caught the last half of the programme. I can not understand why someone would choose not to receive any ante natal care or scans. If we had gone down that route both ds and I would be dead now

I'm all for personal choice and believe that women should be able to choose to have a home birth if they wish but to turn your back on the medical system completely is irresponsible. There are women in some countries who do not have access to any medical assistance when giving birth and I am sure they would be sickened that women are putting themselves and their babies at risk.

nkf · 10/07/2008 10:25

I'm not so sure that personal choice is such a great good after all. Not when there are so many daft people about.

cupsoftea · 10/07/2008 10:40

wonder what the parenting styles of the free birthes are? Giving birth is just the beginning of the story

GoatisLOLing · 10/07/2008 10:46

i found the 2 births i say v. moving. my experience was having various people coming intot he room and doing internals, junior doctors butchering my arm to get a drip in. alot of negativity about my ability to give birth naturally, and being tied down by 2 monitors and the drip. i understand their are risks and it is great that we have so much life saving care available but uneccessary intervention is v. disruptive during labour. i believe if i had been at home (preferably with amidwife) i would have had a natural birth.

GoatisLOLing · 10/07/2008 10:46

their ----arrrrrgh there

tigger15 · 10/07/2008 12:10

Someone else may have said this already but I haven't read all 9 pages.

Yes the program was skewed (most usually are) but the point they really failed to emphasise was not the "oh look how dangerous it is" vs " what a wonderful natural experience" debate but the factors which had caused these women to go this way in the 1st place.

The London ex-nurse appeared to have had a traumatic time with her hospital births to the point that she has no trust for mws. Being an ex-nurse this may have contributed to her not wanting much to do with any part of the medical establishment. She did have some AN care but when she informed them of what she was going to do they got nasty so she left.

Yes there is homebirth available in this country and on the NHS. But it is not available to everyone either because of your risk status or because of resources. Maybe if she'd fought a lot she would have got it but given her distrust of mws it was unlikely that this would have been her ideal outcome.

No.2 who I now discover is a doula seemed the oddest of the lot as she did just seem to be ignoring the risks and not bothering finding ways to make it work.

The American was the saddest. I'm not sure what the law is in colorado but I know that in certain US states it is illegal for mws to assist at a home birth and in others they will lose their insurance and therefore thier livelihood. This means that women are left with a situation where they have to choose between hospital or nothing. In addition, her lack of AN care may have been due to money or to the fact that many states also have rather anarchic laws on rights of baby (namely they have more than mother) and by entering the system she would face the risk of being confined or having the baby forcibly removed by c-section on the grounds of mental problems of the mother. Seems a bit severe when the desire not to go back to hospital is caused by their conduct in the first place.

The part at the end of her birth where (she quite sensibly) went to hospital because her placenta had not delivered and their response - "what will you let us do to you" "what do you need to do" "we'll only tell you once you've told us what we can do" is not the sort of medical care anyone wants to receive.

I personally think that freebirthing with no one or someone with no idea of what to do in an emergency present, is foolhardy and irresponsible as you and they may not be able to deal with the problems that come up. Homebirth is definitely appropriate in a larger number of cases than it is currently used for. The real problem (in the UK) is that we need a greater number of midwives and resources than is currently allocated to allow women to give birth w/out unnecessary interventions caused by the need to rush women in and out of hospitals to free up beds. Yes childbirth in hospital is safer than it used to be for many but in some ways it is more dangerous for lower risk women.

Rant over.

tigger15 · 10/07/2008 12:23

Ok no.2 wasn't a doula it was no.1

IMO no.2 was a little crazy

Pruners · 10/07/2008 12:45

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StarlightMcKenzie · 10/07/2008 12:49

This reply has been deleted

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Pruners · 10/07/2008 12:55

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sophiebbb · 10/07/2008 13:29

Just to add a nice UK birth story - to balance all the negative ones. After my first birth with DS1 (at which I was dealt with appalling by the midwives) at St George's Hospital, Tooting, London I decided to go into the new birthing centre which opened Jan 2008 at the same hospital.

Wow - what an amazing experience. The birthing centre is next door to the hospital so I felt relatively safe that in an emergency there would be help on hand. The room I was in was wonderful - large, with private bathroom, big birthing pool, 2 mattresses (one on a bed and the other on the floor). I had a lovely midwife (I had never met her before but she was very nice) who stood in the room but basically left me to give birth naturally. I did so standing up with no tearing and the baby came straight to me and breastfed. I was a wonderful experience.

I write this because if anyone has the chance to use this birthing centre then I cannot recommend it more highly.

The interesting thing is that ante-natally, the midwives were pushing this birthing centre to me very hard. It seemed as if they were desperate that people should use it (it is sometimes empty ). It seems as if the demand from women is not as big as we may think unfortunately.

sophiebbb · 10/07/2008 13:31

PS They were also pushing very hard for me to homebirth as well. Seems as if there is some positive change going in in pockets.

mwunderground · 10/07/2008 13:59

I happen to know Clair, we live in the same area. I don't think she chose to freebirth because she didn't trust the midwives . She made the choice very early in her pregnancy and it was something she wanted to experience.
She lives in the same area I do and had care from the same midwives, I know she had care from the same midwife through her whole pregnancy and she seemed to like and trust her, she had all her antenatal check ups in her home and the midiwives are very experienced in homebirth, I think about 20% of women in our area have a homebirth, she would have had a midwife she knew at her birth and they're all very natural and would have let her partner deliver the baby if she wanted . I know she had some problems with the hospital managers but I don't think she had any problems with her midwives. She just wanted to experience freebirthing.

RegenerAitch · 10/07/2008 14:19

oh well then, jolly good show for clair.

i had a lovely birth experience with dd, i think precisely because my high bp and risk of pre-eclampsia meant that i never bothered to become wedded to any birth plan other than 'keep us safe, please'.

midwife was fantastic, care was calm and the environment was absolutely as chilled-out as it could possibly have been, despite my being monitored with belts etc. and in the end they kept us safe, what more can a mother ask for really?

now, the fact that not all mothers have the same level of care under a strapped system, that's the disgrace. sometimes there are advantages to being a bit funky in the bp dept.

candyfluff · 10/07/2008 15:04

i missed this last night please can anyone tell me how i can see it again?

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