Half Man - on BBCiPlayer from the 24th

[fundamentallyauthentic]

Anyone else looking forward to seeing this new show from the writer and star of Baby Reindeer that begins tomorrow?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m002j18t/half-man?seriesId=trailers

The six episodes in the series will be dropped weekly from tomorrow morning at 6.00 on iPlayer and will be broadcast on BBC1 the following Tuesday at 22.40. I want to be clear that this thread is for people who won't be waiting to watch when it's broadcast. So, this is the spoiler thread, and it's OK to talk about what we've seen as soon as it's been shown on iPlayer!

WAY WAY too much

I was actually really glad they included the bit about Ruben ejaculating during his sexual abuse. Having worked with victims of CSA for many years, this is a very common but rarely talked about aspect of abuse. It can be extremely distressing, confusing and it can prevent people from speaking out or from even understanding that what happened to them was, in fact, abuse. I also thought it was really important in terms of Ruben's character that we got to see for the first time that much of his violence and need to control and dominate others is driven not just by rage, but by a deep sense of shame. Maybe that's partly why he and Niall have such a close, intense (albeit extraordinarily fucked-up) bond, they're both driven by shame and they can sense that in one another from a very young age.

I'm interested to know if this programme is deemed 'successful' or however you want to put it
Ie if the majority of people who watched it in general actually thought it was worth watching in the end or not

I mean not just on here

I agree.

Like in the brothel scene when they were showing Niall and his mate receiving oral sex whilst they were casually chatting about the other random man who was in there who was watching but not participating…….

It was being shot from a long angle so we could see everything that was going on and part
of me was thinking, “Do we actually need to be seeing this in this much detail?”

It was like everything was being pushed to an extreme that wasn’t necessary.

Yep

I really enjoyed watching it because I found the dynamic of the relationship fascinating…… but what kept me watching was the anticipation of finding out what was at the root of Ruben’s evil character, what drove his behaviours, what need did he fulfil in Niall that meant Niall couldn’t walk away from him…. I wanted some kind of resolution, an explanation, something that provided an answer as to why despite all the dysfunction they still seemed to need each other.

The fact that no such explanation or conclusion was provided has left me feeling very disappointed and it does leave me thinking what was the point in all that build-up for it to just end like that?

So yeah, what was the point in even making it?
(or watching it as a viewer)

I think it was very deliberately left ambiguous and open to interpretation. You don't always get answers or a clear resolution in life so I'm generally of the view that it's ok for drama to reflect that, but I know some people find it frustrating.

My interpretation was that Niall and Ruben were both very troubled kids who were living with a deep sense of shame, Niall because of his sexuality and Ruben because of his childhood sexual abuse. Neither had a Father figure in their lives. Ruben's Mum was in denial about his issues and Niall's Mum found it difficult to show him love and affection consistently. So Ruben and Niall developed this toxic dynamic where they needed each other but both resented the fact that they needed each other, hence why when one was doing well the other couldn't stand it. There's also several hints throughout the series that Ruben is not entirely straight, and that there may be a sexual element to the intensity of their feelings for one another which would likely be terrifying for them both given Ruben's childhood trauma and Niall's shame around his sexuality
Ruben and Niall are simular creatures in many ways. Every chance he gets to turn his life around Ruben fucks it up by doing something violent, but always blames others for 'making' him resort to violence. Niall also hurts people, not physically like Ruben, but he uses and manipulates people (particularly the women in his life like Ava, Mona and his friend from uni) and also fucks up every opportunity that's given to him. Like Ruben, he never takes responsibility, but whereas Ruben is driven by rage, instead Niall wallows in self-pity and bitterness. Ruben is basically a caricature of toxic masculinity but I think in Niall we're presented with a different kind of male toxicity, one that is less aggressive but no less destructive.

'It was being shot from a long angle so we could see everything that was going on and part
of me was thinking, “Do we actually need to be seeing this in this much detail?”
It was like everything was being pushed to an extreme that wasn’t necessary.'

I agree. Same with Niall being sick all over Morah as she was dying. I think it was meant to be dark humour, but it was just so unpleasant, unnecessary and ridiculous. That's more or less my view of the whole series to be honest. Six hours of my life I won't get back. SUCH a disappointment after Baby Reindeer

For me it was worth watching for the performance of Stuart Campbell who played young Ruben. He was fantastic-he could be charming and likeable but that horrible violence about to burst out-what a performance. I lost interest after the older actors were the main focus.

I thought the end was too abrupt. We know they both died but it felt not quite complete.

Overall I thought it was good but shocking and far too violent - I actually couldn't watch some parts of it.

Agree with the analysis in this thread. Ruben damaged by his father's sexual abuse and left confused and obsessed with being manly. Good call to those who guessed that.

We were confused during the final scene, we weren't sure if he was raping Niall as he didn't seem to be actively beating him. It was only later we realised he had smothered him.

I think the "white" stain on the kilt is meant to suggest Ruben ejaculated but as pointed out on another thread, it's actually a pool of Ruben's blood with light reflected on it. Ruben's trousers are shown done up and clean immediately afterwards.

I thought all the clues and foreshadowing were really good. Including young Mona "you'd better not get me pregnant", Niall to Alby at uni "we're like two parts of the same person" (about Ruben, later referenced in the prison scene about them both being half men) and mum giving Niall the "ceremonial" dagger.

It was quite clever how Niall was initially a victim but also became a villain by episode 5. It was exasperating though how self destructive they both were. Just when anything was going right they sent it tits up again. In the prison scene where they are confessing their truths and bonding/ laughing we kept saying "don't say anything else" but we knew he would.

Things I found rather far fetched which sort of distracted by preposterousness:

A pretty small cast with the same characters popping up over decades. Ruben marrying his teenage girlfriend. Niall partnered with Joanna and then Alby, both of whom he met on the first day of uni. Gus cropping up at school, then at dogging, then at the wedding. Apart from Ava, no significant others in several decades.

Just seemed so unlikely that Ruben would happily assume Baird was his child when he knew he was infertile and that Mona had been unfaithful (which he had believed, hence his attack on Benji).

Niall accidentally getting two women pregnant within months even though he's gay and not interested in women.

Ruben getting a 100k job straight out of prison.

Mona having an affair despite being terrified of Ruben. Then wanting him back when he was still in prison and she could have been safely free. Yes he had charisma but he was an awful violent controlling thug. (I think he said Celeste hooked up with him too after the first prison sentence despite knowing what he had done to Alby.)

Niall being so terrified of Ruben knowing he is gay when just about everyone else knew anyway.

Ruben being so jealous and controlling of Mona during their marriage but quite happy to "share" her in their early relationship.

Ava and their son being happily at the wedding despite the fact that their relationship had ended over him seeing male prostitutes. Ditto Joanna. And Alby wanting to get involved with Niall despite him being a total mess and the reason Alby nearly lost his life, just why? Most people would run a mile from that sort of trouble.

I agree the time lines were very blurry with big time jumps but seemingly nothing much having happened in between. But I suppose they needed to keep the key elements of the plot sharp and the passing of time was necessary due to the prison sentences.

Anyway it made me feel like I've led a very sheltered life and I'm quite happy about that!

Yes too shocking and too violent

I wish I hadn't watched it now

Absolute shite. Clunky script and dialogue. So many ridiculous scenes that just wouldn’t happen.

One major plot hole for me in the last episode was Reuben being so accepting of Niall’s sexuality when he eventually told him. He said that he didn’t give a fuck that he was gay. But wasn’t that the sole reason that Reuben attacked poor Albie back in episode 1? Wasn’t it because Albie was trying to tell him that him and Niall liked each other (Niall had told Albie that he had told Reuben but he bottled out). And isn’t that the reason why Niall is terrified of Reuben finding out that he’s gay?

Yes I think that Reuben definitely had it against Albie for being gay and cos he suspected something was going on yes

And yes I think Reuben didn't like how Niall might be gay and I definitely believe that Niall was justified in being terrified if Reuben was to find it he was gay.

So no I don't believe that Reuben would have been ok with him being gay in the end. It doesn't make sense for Reuben to me

I thought the reason Ruben attacked Alby was because during all the altercation Alby accidentally pushed Niall too hard (when Niall was trying to stop Alby from telling Ruben about their relationship) and it caused Niall to fall and hurt himself, and that is what angered Ruben (he was being protective of Niall).

That was the impression I got anyway.

Nope it’s a no from me.

I'm only halfway through episode 1, and haven't read the full thread or any onlinee reviews yet.

To me, it feels like a psychotherapy session gone wrong. His opening lines are "You don't have to speak, you have to listen" - like someone finally telling, or trying to work out, their side of a story that has felt outside their control.

In Baby Reindeer he mentioned the helplessness of being "seduced" (sexually assaulted) and how he wasn't sure whether it made him lean towards being gay or not. From what I've seen so far, in this series he seems to be exploring themes he might not yet have worked out in his own head - powerlessness, degradation, humiliation, social judgement, etc, particularly around "being gay."

There seems to be a bit of an alter ego thing going on: one that finds all this distressing, and the other that delights in it. I suppose that could be what "half man" alludes to (with the added connotation that he's only 50% "masculine" in conventional terms).

Not sure if I will persevere long enough to find out whether I'm right or not!

Don't bother! Half Man is a series that asks a huge amount of its audience and gives very little in return. I kept watching thinking it must be worth it in the end but it just wasn't.

That's a really good description. An incredibly tough watch - in terms of stomach churning violence but also clunky, unbelievable dialogue and ridiculous situations - and absolutely not worth your time or energy

Thanks @tulippa and @Lottapianos I kinda got that impression...!

Life is too short to watch someone struggle incoherently through their hangups around power and masculinity...

Totally agree <after saying I wouldn't watch ep 2 i did watch more as dh thought might be worth a watch>.

It's such grim viewing but the young actors made it compelling. I wish they'd just aged them a bit instead of using different actors, they both already looked mid twenties when supposed to be school kids so it wouldve worked. It was only 14yrs later.

Gadd as the older Ruben was revolting and far too ott while the actor playing the younger Ruben made him yes a nutter, but a vulnerable and fleetingly likeable one at times. Ditto Niall, the younger one likeable the older one rodent like and just not someone you cared less about.

As an aside would a violent ex con really get a job on the rigs on a massive salary?!

Good sound track though.

I find the writer really interesting but do worry what’s in his head as so much of it is just so dark
It seems like a lot of it could be about him understanding his own feelings about things?

All of this. They knew he was an unhinged psycho yet seemed to just make matters worse all the time.

Yes they were all flawed and on self destruct to say the least but to tell him about Mona and Baird was absolutely bizarre behaviour and the fight at the end with Ruben's interminable grunting and squawking was so disturbing. Why tf didn't anyone from the wedding intervene, call the cops anything?!

I heard him on a podcast recently and when discussing his sexuality, he came across as very much gay and in denial, and still working it all out. I think he's a pretty messed up person