MAFS #12 NO SPOILERS. The mugs are getting muggier whilst farting dogs keep blindsighting us. Accountability is yet to be taken, and backs are not being had. The same old arguments are on repeat, self-relfection accountability and thrush galore.

[dillite]

Save us. Please.

Watching on catch up - John yet again playing the leading role in his daily rom com and also forcing Abi to say she’s told him she loves him back by telling the whole group. He’s so insincere/they are as others have said possible plants by producers as just don’t ring true & are so scripted.

Me also watching second half on catch up.
OMG - I cannot believe Ash has patiently put up with her shit for so long.

Episode was not that great, too much attention on Grace an Ash.

Love John and Ami.

Not enough attention paid to how awful April is.
Still teamGrace. Ash tells the group stuff that he didn't say and Grace pulled him up on it in private and he always said that she's right. That was the not having a voice thing she was on about.

Hi

She’s more self-reflective, mature and accountable than him. She admitted at dinner it’s both of them. He wouldn’t acknowledge it’s both. He feels it’s only her.

When she talks about how she feels, he gets defensive and plays the victim. He’s right when he says Grace does have a voice. The problem is he doesn’t listen or respect how she feels.

He doesn’t have to agree with her or apologise. All he has to do is hear her and acknowledge he understands how she feels. He can still maintain his behaviour’s well-intentioned not meant to be sexist.

Equally, she’s too heavy and deep in how she talks to him about it.

Anyway, it’s for the best. He has to live in Wales because of his child and job. So, if they’d hit it off she’d have had to relocate and fit into his world. He can’t compromise there either. Nor should he, of course.

I feel like she has had a bad edit with the production really hammering home 'feminism' as the destroyer of all relationships 🙄 Wonder why that would be.

Anyway Ash is unfunny and a pusher of boundaries. They are the worst pairing ever.

And yet they have stayed for what feels like 169 weeks and when they make comments about each other there is genuine affection. I think that they really do get on in a weird way.

The whole April thing was awful and I think both ash and April really stirred that. April is awful and Ash showed a real lack of loyalty.

For all of the hideous online comments about grace (mostly from women who think they could do a better job with ash), I think Grace has shown herself to be considered and really wanting to get an insight into how she behaves in relationships.... Ash seems to just want a shag and someone to giggle along at his shit jokes.

It’s funny that we are so split on the Ash/Grace shit show but I think
one thing we all agree on is that despite an atttraction they are just never going to work, they make each other unhappy and it’s time to walk away.

Grace is as bad as ‘the claw’

Hope he gets a refund

Agree with all of this.

I actually think Ash and April got together in his spare room, which is why Grace has thrown her little "thrush" issue out there, just because she is aware they probably got to it as soon as they could.

I can't stand how April is lying and trying to make our Rebecca is stirring when she knows she doesn't like Leo and is clearly leading him on. She doesn't like it when things aren't all going her way, just like Ash. They'll do well in their "I'll bang anything me!" bants bubble.

I don't think I care enough about any of the other couples. Keye and Davide look like they are just waiting it out wondering why the hell other people are still there. John and Abi freakshow seem to be running out of new jazz hands moments. Crystal and Leigh trying to find drama but I actually think they're fine and just going slow. Bailey and Rebecca are boring but relatively stable for now (if April doesn't put her size 9's in it which I suspect is coming judging by her murderous face when she is called out).

Experts - stating the obvious, over a show too late to the party, at least understood where Grace was coming from (they can see Ash is a handsy man who "appreciates women" in a way a lot of women find fairly repellant) and it seems will finally be calling April out which should have been done last time IMO - they ripped Sarah a new one for less.

I was annoyed that nobody picked up on April not answering the “do you miss him” question was basically equivalent to her saying no anyway. Otherwise, she’d have said yes. Not answering just gave her more opportunity to pull a dramatic gurney face.

Literally raging at Mel’s “he’s an adult and controls what comes out of his mouth”. If they pile on Ash at the couch session, my head may blow off completely.

Then again I’d love him to say that Grace has finally given him the itch, but that isn’t going to happen either.

It’s not just about acknowledging/validating her feelings though - I actually think he did loads of that at the beginning where she wouldn’t look at him or let him put his arm round her without flinching and he seemed very understanding and patient about that when I think a lot of people would have been really put off.
The trouble is that her feelings are triggered by almost EVERYTHING he does or says. I understand what he means when he says he will never be enough for her. It’s like a Sisyphean mountain - he “fixes” one thing about himself so he doesn’t trigger her feelings and have to spend days apologising but then she always finds something else that she is offended or insulted by. Constant tiptoeing around on eggshells is exhausting.

Essentially she wants him to be something he is not. The experts should be saying he needs to be with someone who appreciates his authentic self, not telling him he’s not trying hard enough to be someone else.

I suspect Grace will be better staying single and there’s nothing wrong with that.

I do think Grace has had a bad edit. I’ve been analysing this probably too seriously for mafs! Sorry if this is too serious…
There’s unbalanced content with more from Grace, pleading for understanding of the impact of what he says on her, than there is coverage of Ash’s actual triggers. Whilst he pays lip service to her concerns, as he’s on the programme, his real private attitude is dismissiveness or long suffering irritation that she raises them at all.
There are many blokes who have automatically absorbed and endorsed unspoken attitudes to women from a previous generation. Ash may play lip service to equality, but the underlying attitude comes through in daily casual dialogue which has a drip drip thread of objectifying women. Didn’t he say he wants a Tomboy Barbie- earlier on? Was that him? I think he means a “farmers wife” (why are they never called joint farmers?) someone who uncomplainingly gets on with all hard work on a farm- 7 days a week physical labour doing all the indoor jobs, plus mucking in relentlessly with all the outdoor jobs, but then miraculously transforming into a Groomed, manicured goddess when required.

There’s still the persistent age old form of misogyny that subtly overrates the importance of women’s physical appearance over other qualities. It is hidden but leaves harmful psychological effects and some are more able to cope than others. It’s not just him, it’s a centuries old pervasive behaviour that reinforces gender inequality. My partner, who’s generally kind, ‘helps with’ rather than shares household tasks, treats daughters/sons/ nieces/ nephews equally etc.still displays these traits too. When he meets some-one new, the first thing he comments on with men is how good they are at their job, what their politics are, how clever or funny they seem. When he meets women he may mention those things eventually if encouraged, but his first and predominant comments and thoughts are always a passing ‘ she’s pretty’. Whilst some women can see it, ignore it, try and educate, laugh it off Grace needs someone who just doesn’t think like that at all.
Ash is a parent isn’t he, it would be interesting to know what his ex thinks?

Yes Grace is shown begging and pleading which Ash has used to show that he has to "look after" her - which isn't what she wants, she wants respect and to be seen as an individual rather than a sex doll.
He just wants to have her come around to his personality, he hasn't changed it. He doesn't see that he might need to, at all. He's so confident everyone sees everything his way and she is in the wrong he encouraged her to ask everyone then got upset when he realised everyone understood why Grace wasn't taking it as a compliment.
Manipulation like this is very common in men and as pp said some women. Once you see it you can't unsee it, but I understand why so many chose to ignore it repeatedly for an easy life.

No one should have to change to accommodate someone else. They just aren’t right for each other.

While I get that, if you are repeatedly saying you have changed, but it is a lie and you haven't, that is manipulation and gaslighting. Experts need to pull him up on it.

I should elaborate on that. Yes we can all learn the art of compromise but actually changing personalities is virtually impossible. Trying to change someone else’s personality is on a hiding to nothing.

I don’t think he’s lying. I think he’s actually tried and tried with Grace. I don’t believe he could ever win with her. He’s not manipulating and gaslighting, he’s just utterly exasperated with Grace and her constant nitpicking.

Yes, I get his personality isn't one she will ever really gel with, he does need to take accountability for all of the lying and gaslighting. He admitted early doors he had lied to the experts to make her look bad, and has been doing it ever since. Changed what he said about "a good looking woman" to some wishy washy version, which I don't think Crystal bought because it had clearly changed from what he told her earlier while Grace's version is consistent. He's lying to get out of looking like the misogynist he is and using his charm offensive to make out she's just mental. He's gaslit her and the others that she's the needy controlling one from the start and never taken any accountability for what he has actually said and done.

It's not really a compliment though is it? He may intend it as a compliment but she just sees it as him wanting a shag and disregarding the fact that she is in a rush to get ready and has plans. As I am sure has been said, if he were rather less attractive he would be seen as lecherous. We don't know what he's actually like. He may put quite a lot of pressure on her.

Ash is like teen DS who says I am controlling because I have to keep asking him to brush his teeth every morning. Basic stuff that he'd simply rather not do and blames me for "being obsessive" over.

I think Grace has autism which explains the no touching and the prickly hard limits of wanting things done a certain way and obsessing over various things.

Add in an unflattering edit and Ash being completely unable to reflect on his behaviour and at least apologise, even if he doesn't know why, and she comes across as difficult.

I'm reminded of her introduction section where she was really funny and brave and pushing herself to do loads of different things and we have rarely seen that side of her.

I think she has been badly served by the ixperts and would have done better with someone like Bailey.

Just watching last nights. I don’t think Grace has autism. I think she’s an absolute pain in the arse and it’s her way or nothing. I hate it when she can’t get her own way and starts fake crying.