Celeb Traitors #2. Who will blink first under Claudia’s stare, will Alan crack under pressure and how good does Mark Bonnar look in a kilt?

[CarefulN0w]

And who will be the first to be banished from the table?

The truth is, there often isn't really anything to go on, especially in the early stages. We all talk about people being smart because they've guessed right but they really are only guessing. It's actually quite unusual to have the sort of clue Jaz had (for those who didn't see, Paul talked to him about a conversation Jaz had had with Harry, but Jaz realised the only time Harry could have told Paul about it was during a Traitors meeting; Jaz had had the conversation, they'd all left for the night, then Paul brought it up the next morning). Jaz was obviously really clever, he really deservee to win, but that kind of opportunity for actual logic rather than a guess at who's lying is unusual.

The show has made me realise how hard it really is to tell if someone's lying. All the signa that they might be are demonstrated by Faithful, loads of Faithful get banished for what's deemed suspicious behaviour. Confusing the matter further is that of course, most people are Faithful, so most people in there are telling the truth!

Well indeed. And Judge Judy used to say 'dont pee on my leg and tell me it's raining!' 😁

Neither saying is Irish

I'd only ever heard "don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining", and that only from Aussies.

Same. Norfolk.

Maybe the faithful have it harder as they are clueless as to who is behind the murders, so more likely to look suspicious? It’s only my silly musings , but Mark singled out Tameka from the get go and she didn’t seem to be doing much wrong. It must be so hard with all the whispering and skullduggery going on.

We all talk about people being smart because they've guessed right but they really are only guessing.

Yes. Especially in the early days they're clutching at straws because there's so little to go on.

Clare deducing that Alan as the least likely to murder Paloma might be a traitor seems smarter than all the attempts at noticing small changes body language.

Same. Devon!

For me, it's not the fact that she speaks her mind, but it's the aggressive way that she does it. There's no humour or warmth to her somehow that would make me like her at the same time, the way some other contestants have/had. She just seems kind of generally pissed off the whole time.

Yes! She seems to be taking the whole thing personally.
Like complaining to customer service about a fly in your soup. No warmth or fun.

Whether it's diffeent places or just different rooms/floors of the same hotel (guarded/protected so they can't see/hear each other), they must still have to leave one by one, so there must either be a whole fleet of cars enough for each person to have their own, or the cars must be coming and going all evening for a while if it's, say, 20 or 30 min back to the hotel, and then return for the next people, and then need 5 or 10 min to get the person inside without the next car seeing. And the cars with the traitors circle round and come back to the castle, though I guess they could drop them in some secret place where they have to wait until the other traitors eventually get there.

I guess the easiest is just to have 20 cars available, not the 5 that were shown at first. And given all the production crew and so on there, I suppose that's quite realistic, as it could be any cars not just the fancy black matching ones with special number plates!

I don't know if they actually arrive individually in the mornings as well and then put into a room, and separated into breakfast groups for entering - they make it look like a 'carful' arriving at once, but it probably isn't, because then that carful would know that one of them has been separated out, and you'd not get the same chance of a surprised reaction when they find out who's missing.

I’m pretty sure I read for the normal version that they are told what time their car will be leaving and come in the small groups. Then put into a room, then allowed in for breakfast.
I also heard that filming breakfast takes forever

I think she comes over very aggressive,it's a game but she genuinely seems to despise JR, she would lie too if she was a traitor, she's obsessed with his comment about an alliance but what was the response from the rest of them in the car at the time, I don't remember them objecting.

Does she have to project warmth and likeability? She presumably got cast for who she is, and projecting what she does project. And/or the way she’s edited highlights those aspects of her character.

I get very tired of the deeply sexist idea that women have to soften being pissed off with humour or self-deprecation to be acceptable.

I like Ruth. At least she isn’t being two faced!

I think it would be better if the game was more like Mafia - where the traitors are playing as a group rather than individually. So at the end, if a traitor wins then all the traitors get the money - even the ones who were banished previously.

I think it’s more interesting that way because then there’s situations where it would make sense to allow yourself to be thrown under the bus and sacrifice yourself so your fellow traitors can look more innocent.

It would also avoid ridiculous situations like Wilf and Kieran in s1 (to this day I think Kieran blatantly broke the rules and Wilf was robbed). I guess they think it’s more fun to see traitors turn on each other and I get that too.

Traitors have to be two faced and Ruth would be too if she were picked.

She doesn't have to be, no. But it's why I don't like her, rather than because she speaks her mind! Some people seemed to be saying she wasn't liked because she was outspoken and called JR out for lying, which I don't mind at all, but it's the pissed off and aggressive way she does it that I don't really like. Others can call out liars and be outspoken in a way that means I still like them (both men and women).

I guess they think it’s more fun to see traitors turn on each other and I get that too.

As Claudia would say: what's the game called?

It's in everyone's interest to get rid of someone to save yourself. You can't win if you're not in the game. It also makes the stakes higher; what's the point of playing if you can still win once you're out?

I’ve not just made up the concept though. The game Mafia - which Traitors is heavily inspired by - plays this way and it is still a well designed game that is fun to play and has been around many many years. I think it’s just a different way of playing.

The game is called Traitors because they are Traitors to the Faithfuls surely? The traitors would still be motivated to stay in because the more that stay in, the more likely they are to win as a group. Having the numbers to influence voting is really significant.

Throwing someone under the bus would still be a risky move especially if there was no/little recruiting of more traitors because you’d be weakening your numbers significantly and it may not even pay off. I think there’s still only very rare situations it would make sense to do it.

Like I said, I get why they also like the everyone for themselves style of gaming but I personally think it would be a more fun game if it was played as a group of traitors.

It does tend to be right towards the end that the traitors may throw each under the bus. As numbers are dwindling and they want to avoid suspicion on themselves.

I loved playing Mafia! We called the faithfuls ‘villagers’!.

I'd find a man with her attitude just as off-putting. That's why I didn't like Tom either, although he didn't seem as aggressive.

I agree that Ruth comes over as a stroppy aggressive teenager in a game where staying in comes from making alliances. But I wonder if being Irish, she is less in awe of the NTs than the others, hence her anger towards JR.

She is definitely not bright IMO if she thought the alliance comment meant anything in a game called the traitors though.

Name one single alliance that has worked in anyone’s favour so far.

Virtually Irish tv watchers have access to all UK tv channels, so have pretty much the same potential exposure to JR, SF, AC, CB etc, but in my experience, her generation have watched a lot less tv. I mean, I’m not sure Cat is displaying any particular awe towards them, either. She’s pretty colourless so far, though.

Well, she's not wrong to deduce that if Ross suggested an alliance and then tried to banish someone in that alliance and denies making it, he may be up to something.

Bit late to the party but just here to say how glad I was to see Tom murdered
no more of his humourless peacocking
I suspect they have murdered Ruth and will get away with it for a little while