EastEnders: the SPOILERS thread!

[Southeastdweller]

Welcome to the EastEnders spoilers thread, where we post and talk about any EE spoilers we've read about, including those in early release episodes on iPlayer.

Link below to watch episodes on BBC iPlayer - these are usually dropped at 6am on broadcast days - and you can read brief synopses of upcoming episodes:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006m86d

I felt we were being lectured to as well and I don’t think putting Joel down like that would help if self esteem is his problem.

Just watched. I thought that was really shocking.
Good on Avani for insisting the "Shh" business was wrong. Really surprised at Sharon's attitude but then it does represent how some women feel.

i didn't feel this was appropriate for 7.30pm.. not when there was NO counter arguments for the shit the boys were spouting.. i get this stuff needs highlighting, but there also should be a responsibility for someone else to be countering their arguments in an effective manner.

All i saw was violence, and reasoning for it without any effective counter.. and i think that's REALLY bad form, and if any youngsters WERE watching it.. they're going to take away what Joel & Tommy were spouting with no healthy, well reasoned counter argument.

Very shocking. Knew he was gonna probably hit or sexually assault Vicky for a while and it finally happened.
He pretty much left her for dead.

Did he hurt his face before he left the house? I feel like he's gonna say Vicky hit him first.He hit her so hard she might be dead!!

@Kreepture
i didn't feel this was appropriate for 7.30pm.. not when there was NO counter arguments for the shit the boys were spouting.. i get this stuff needs highlighting, but there also should be a responsibility for someone else to be countering their arguments in an effective manner.

Yes - that is exactly my problem too. There is absolutely no effective countering of Joel's arguments, and way too much excusing of his views and behaviour - "Amy goaded him/pushed him, Vicki goaded him".

It is both infuriating and really lame. It almost seems as if the writers themselves secretly agree with him and cannot think of convincing counter arguments. It is such an important topic, it is irresponsible and unacceptable.

I assume this is all just going to go up in flames in typical EE style with Joel falling off a roof, because no one - writers or characters - seems able to deal with it.

Today’s episode was all a bit GCSE drama for me, ti be honest - bar the last scene, which was disturbing.

I don’t like this storyline in for EE, to be honest. We’ve had Adolescence, which you had to be living under a rock to have missed. This is a second rate copy.

So true. The Sharon/Billie/Priya "just a bit of banter" stuff made me uncomfortable although I think they were trying to show different points of view. Also did feel conflicted as I thought good on Amy for standing up to Joel but then violence is violence. I also would have cheered Vicky on (and I really don't like her) if she had lamped Joel one. I wonder if there is a valid point that young boys are being told women are equal on one hand then but you can't fight back even if they hit you first on the other.

I thought both Amy and Avani were trying to get the message across about how Joel's behaviour was totally unacceptable. Even Priya was on their side.

Was surprised at Nugget, Will and Ricky's responses though. Like Amy was asking for it ffs!

And what was the video Joel showed in assembly? That would never happen irl. Plus he made a teacher walk out crying by shushing her.

That's 3 things in 1 school day, no? Assembly video; shushing the teacher; hitting Amy. Oh and then, beating Vicki. Can't believe she was on the floor after one slap. That was too much imho. She should have slapped him back - it would have been self-defense!

Kat is doing a good job of trying to explain why this attitude is wrong and I think Amy conveyed how a lot of women and girls feel but can't quite verbalize it.

I agree. It’s interesting see how Kat has evolved and I do think the writers and Jessie Wallace are doing a good job in that respect. It feels natural and credible.

Yes I noticed that too over the last while. Sharon's comments did seem misjudged to me.

@Alucard55
I wonder if there is a valid point that young boys are being told women are equal on one hand then but you can't fight back even if they hit you first on the other.

And this is where it all falls down.

Women going around 'giving each other a slap' is something that happens in soaps. But in real life that just does not routinely happen, whereas men harrassing/assaulting women does routinely happen. EE is not a forum where incel behaviour can be addressed with any coherence.

We should not be mulling over whether it is as bad for Stacey to slap someone as it is for Joel to be repeatedly assaulting and humiliating women. Think about what he's done. There is no excuse or debate about it IMO.

I would love for there to be no violence at all in any of the soaps and there to be regular non-preachy conversations about why it's wrong, but women hitting other people in soaps - at least in EE - is a convention and thus is unlikely to go away. Right from the get go in 1985, It has pissed me off that the women characters get away with it (more than the men) and yes I know it's not real, but it sends off a message it's OK because everyone either ignores it or trivialises the violence, which is what it is. Then again, maybe it is changing, as some of Kat's reflections today perhaps demonstrate.

I hope Joel is suitably punished and of course what he's done is worse than what Stacey did. I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable that so far he's evaded justice for sexually assaulting the woman on the tube. But as I said earlier, Ross is very credible, so him covering it up I can believe.

I thought he was using Vicki's make up to look like an injury. As I did to my wrist when I wanted to get out of hockey. As a back up should it be found that he'd hit her, that she had hit him first.

I thought he was wiping Vicky's blood off his face

Could have been. I wasn't sure.

Definitely this. He hit her and turned his camera on, you hear her moaning while the stairs shot is on screen so presumably he continues to beat her.

I do agree that there was no counter argument, there hasn't been in this whole story. Ross always agrees with Joel's excuses. As I said earlier, I do see what ee were trying to do in today's episode. I just hope they wrap it up soon with a decent conclusion.

This week has been really strange. It used to be that we had some just normal kind of day-to-day storylines, but these days it's just dramatic, explosive storylines all crammed in together. In the last two weeks we've had Lauren and Peter's wedding, Max coming back, Stacey leaving, more of the awful cuckooing storyline with Kojo, Ben coming back and him and Callum breaking up, Stuart coming back for the funeral, and now the Joel storyline ramps up.

There has been some brilliant acting though, just a shame that 4 of the better actors were either just short appearances or have gone away (Stuart, Ben, Max, and Stacey). Oscar and Joel are also great actors, but it is really jarring seeing them next to other actors because it just makes them seem so flat.

I wish Ben had been released, not moved. He's such a brilliant character and actor.

Tonight's Jake storyline was horrible to watch. He plays the part so well, but the scenes in-between were clunky and painful -especially the one outside the Vic. Sharon can hardly move her face and it looks like she's constantly grimacing as one small part of her face does all the acting.

I wonder why they decided to the leaving the "mewing" gesture out of the shushing, it's very much a part of this particular misogynistic act and it seemed strange to show a part of it - unless it was felt that kids have moved on from that now and they didn't want to remind them of the whole stupid thing. (They're all fixated on this 6,7 crap now).

I agree far too much has happened in the past fortnight, they are crashing through storylines at a rate of knots.

Soaps having always showcased strong women, in Corrie it started with Ena, Elsie and Annie Walker. Even back in the 60s and 70s it was the women having rucks in the street.

When I think of memorable characters in EE they are mostly women, icons like Peggy, Pat, Kat, Stacey (all fond of slapping). I don’t think that will change, and it doesn’t need to because soaps work on their own terms. A year ago The Six were murdering, burying bodies, digging them up, burying them again, getting away with it. It’s good drama. But it means the show can't handle the incel debate. I hope this storyline is over soon.

(Edit - well not murdering, manslaughter/self defence, but he still died!)

I don’t want to see anyone slapping anyone else. Doesn’t matter who does it and why, Matriarchs have always been a feature of soaps. When the acting and writing combine well it’s wonderful to watch. I just don’t think those characters should get a free pass when they’re being violent. And I never liked that The Six got away with covering up the death of someone who didn’t need to be killed. It is indeed good drama in a way, but good drama also involves justice (could be termed soap justice) and it is unsatisfying and sends a bad message when it doesn’t happen.

The Six was a bit of a disaster in the wrapping up, but it provided good drama for a year and we got soap justice of a sort with Dean finally being imprisoned for Linda's rape. And Keanu's death was driven by his own violence, strangling Sharon. I think soaps are always going to have those type of plots.

So not really any kind of justice in terms of The Six story since Dean didn’t kill Linda. Saint Linda didn’t need to kill him. If the Six were all male we would have seen a very different resolution.

Anyway…From what I’ve read of next week’s stories, Ross finds out about the assault.

If the Six were men they would easily have overpowered one woman without needing to kill her. It's the physical power imbalance that made it 'feasible' with the Six being women, it is not a level playing field.

Next week sounds dire - yet more drugs, Harry kidnapped, more Joel.