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Educating Yorkshire

262 replies

Hallelujah2020 · 05/08/2025 11:52

Coming soon, so hopefully will be in next few weeks

OP posts:
GiveTheGoblinsSnacks · 07/10/2025 13:28

Colinfromaccounts · 02/10/2025 21:10

remember Mushi with the stammer in the original season, who was trying to pass the speaking element of the English GCSE. What would happen to a student with disabilities that prevented them from speaking these days? It just seems cruel to make them do it at all, like making someone who can’t walk well do a running test.

It’s weighted at 0. It takes so, so much time to set up and run. If a kid refuses they get nothing but that’s exactly the same as a distinction in the grand scheme of things.

PaddingtonBlah · 11/10/2025 20:02

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 06/10/2025 17:56

Presumably behaviour in private school isn’t like this??

The privately educated children at my child's ssport are not particularly respectful or well behaved.

ButterPiesAreGreat · 11/10/2025 20:22

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 06/10/2025 18:40

It’s depressing! You’d have to be superhero level cool to not get annoyed with that behaviour. To be fair I remember quite a bit of low level disruption at state secondary until y9/10 when we were put into sets.

And the current trend is NOT to set. Teachers say there is evidence that setting leads to poorer performance when using setting than in mixed attainment groups.

PaddingtonBlah · 11/10/2025 22:09

ButterPiesAreGreat · 11/10/2025 20:22

And the current trend is NOT to set. Teachers say there is evidence that setting leads to poorer performance when using setting than in mixed attainment groups.

I wonder what the evidence shows. I know for those with lower attainment that losing role modelling and the higher ability students could be detrimental, but what's in it for those working well and with top grade potential?

Daintydino · 11/10/2025 22:44

PaddingtonBlah · 11/10/2025 22:09

I wonder what the evidence shows. I know for those with lower attainment that losing role modelling and the higher ability students could be detrimental, but what's in it for those working well and with top grade potential?

Could that be the evidence? It’s better for the kids that aren’t doing so well and if there’s more of them then that makes them the majority and screw the ones who would get further being able to work in peace and quiet?

Felt sorry for Mr Burton this week, someone threatening to burn his house down!!!

TeacherPrimaryabc · 11/10/2025 23:16

PaddingtonBlah · 11/10/2025 22:09

I wonder what the evidence shows. I know for those with lower attainment that losing role modelling and the higher ability students could be detrimental, but what's in it for those working well and with top grade potential?

From experience, I have known "lower ability" children to not be as low as first thought. The topics within a subject are very vast. This is the problem with setting as some of the lower ability kids can surprise you, depending on the lesson or topic.

Children who are generally poor at maths, can actually be very good at money or certain areas of maths. I taught a kid, who had a very tough home life, and amongst other things, did the cooking, was sent to the shop to buy milk etc and was very poor at maths (times tables etc as he never did his homework). However, when learning about money in maths, he was top of the class and in this area was very much "high ability". Similarly with measure, he was excellent as he did lots of cooking and weighing ingredients! And this is where the problem is with putting children in high or low sets. He was brilliant at money, because ofcourse he was using money at in his life to do the shopping etc. He would otherwise been put in the bottom set, when actually in this area he was better than the other kids.

"Low achievers" can also be excellent at PSHE, Geography as quite often, they live chaotic lives, travel a lot, sometimes more streetwise than the "academic" kids. Or what happens is, the kids labelled as low achievers in English, often get put in the low sets for all the other subjects, when actually some of the lower kids in English, end up better at Art, Geography, RE than the top kids.

So what's in it for the "high achievers"? You can teach a class with a mix, and adapt the learning for all. The children who need to be challenged, can be given more challenging questions than the others in the same lesson for example. They also benefit from explaining their thinking, when helping a low ability child. Talking learning, benefits all involved.

Setting is now old news and the reason is that to label a child as low ability, is just not right. As I said, it just depends on the topic. There are examples of course of children who always need extra support, but having all abilities in one class, enables more success for those who otherwise would have been given easy work in the bottom set each day.

That is not to say though, that it's easily done. The teacher has to carefully work out which child should be given which questions, according to their ability in that particular topic. It's very hard to get right, it's a lot of planning and work for the teacher, but it's true that there is no such thing as a low or high child.

ButterPiesAreGreat · 12/10/2025 00:16

Thanks @TeacherPrimaryabc. DC went to a one form entry primary so were taught in one class anyway tho the teacher used to group them for certain tasks/subjects. They were settled in secondary but I was a governor there then and they stopped setting the year below DD after Y8 so they must be fully switched over now. (She’s at uni).

I know parents prefer setting but I am not sure that all parents do. Having not really experienced both sides, I can’t say for sure. I don’t think I was put in sets at secondary although I did go to a grammar.

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 12/10/2025 08:29

I would avoid a school that didn’t put children into sets because of the apparent behaviour issues.

Piggywaspushed · 12/10/2025 08:57

I teach a non setted subject and it gets the best results in the school.

The sets are a red herring. The worst behaviour in schools tends to be in setted subjects - only parents of children they think are cushioned from this by virtue of academic ability want sets. My DS's year 9 was beleaguered by poor behaviour because they actually streamed . He was in the same 'set 3' for everything (it might have been 2) and developed a total 'silly boy' culture as a result which took another two years to knock out of him.

Setting sacrifices low to middle ability children.

Piggywaspushed · 12/10/2025 09:00

They appear anyway to be rigidly setted at Mr Burton's school - and look at how anxious the girl was about that a couple of weeks ago.

Fishinthesink · 12/10/2025 09:08

My kids went to a private international school for a bit and the behaviour was appalling. I think anyone who thinks behaviour is always good in top sets hasn't spent much time in a school!

Pps are right, it's very outdated and doesn't allow for a range of abilities or slower starters. Good teachers can teach a range. I think the only exception might be where you've got higher/lower GCSE papers and you're teaching very much to the test.

TeenToTwenties · 12/10/2025 09:10

iirc The young maths teacher was teaching a top set, not exactly perfect behaviour.

I do get a bit miffed with so many people equating lower ability with poor behaviour. There are loads of lower ability kids who are well behaved and just want to learn.

sittingonabeach · 12/10/2025 20:33

Feel so much for Lottie

Meredusoleil · 12/10/2025 20:41

Just came on to say similar. Such a little sweetheart is Lottie. So sad about her vision!

sittingonabeach · 12/10/2025 20:57

Hope Preston does well too

Meredusoleil · 12/10/2025 20:59

How nice of that boy Alfie to sit with Lottie ❤️

Runningismyhappyplace50 · 13/10/2025 10:44

Setting only really works for the more able students. Disruptive students can also be bright/ able.

My DCs school tried having a top set and then mixed ability for the rest of the cohort- stopped after a year so must have had some issues but seemed like a good idea to me.

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 13/10/2025 13:58

Runningismyhappyplace50 · 13/10/2025 10:44

Setting only really works for the more able students. Disruptive students can also be bright/ able.

My DCs school tried having a top set and then mixed ability for the rest of the cohort- stopped after a year so must have had some issues but seemed like a good idea to me.

More able students are often let down though. How can you teach those getting 9s at GCSE in the same group as those who are below a 4? That’s a huge gap and there isn’t much time in a standard lesson to differentiate for everyone.

Piggywaspushed · 13/10/2025 16:21

Pretty easily actually!

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 13/10/2025 18:13

Piggywaspushed · 13/10/2025 16:21

Pretty easily actually!

If there’s any evidence this works better I’d like to see it.

TeenToTwenties · 13/10/2025 18:16

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 13/10/2025 18:13

If there’s any evidence this works better I’d like to see it.

At GCSE level options subjects often have to teach a wide grade range due to numbers doing the subject and timetabling.

Piggywaspushed · 13/10/2025 18:18

Most options subjects teach mixed ability and get grade 9s?

The EEF has plentiful research about setting by ability.

9 out of 48 students in my subject ( unsetted) got grade 9s last year...

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 13/10/2025 18:27

If the bad behaviour isn’t linked to lower sets, then why does putting children into sets sacrifice the children in the lower sets?

Dancinginthemoonlightbulb · 13/10/2025 18:29

TeenToTwenties · 13/10/2025 18:16

At GCSE level options subjects often have to teach a wide grade range due to numbers doing the subject and timetabling.

I think that’s different to maths though for example. It would be hard to set geography but there are some aspects of maths that require a firm understanding of certain concepts in order to progress.

Piggywaspushed · 13/10/2025 18:29

The culture of low expectation. Ghettoisation. Those children are less likely to behave poorly in a mixed attainment group.