Our Flag Means Death - Thread 5: Ahoy! Surrender! You have no chance of escape!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Hi all!! Roll up for thread 5 and join our chat about our favourite show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome! It’s utterly brilliant, and some of us are still in the grips of obsession many months after the last episode aired (the last for now, that is… We live in hope🙏)

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us.😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, two full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3, and in episode 4 (the start of Act 1) the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least that long. It gets better and better and it still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706
Thread 4:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5136377-our-flag-means-death-thread-4-roll-up-roll-up-come-join-us-for-more-pirate-obsession?reply=139560831

I’m not sure the show depicts heteronormativity as bad, especially with Jiang and Olu’s relationship being showcased in series 2. I feel the message of the show is that it’s okay to be your real and full self and reject society’s expectations.

We see that journey in both the leads. Ed steps away from the toxic male role that was pivotal to his own self-made success, while Stede accepts who he is and walks away from an inherited situation.

During season 1, even distraught Blackbeard is not soft or feminine. He is demonstrative in a blokey way, lots of pats and slaps which is why the tentative, gentle kiss on the beach was so beautiful and unexpected. The only real hint prior was the head lean against Stede’s hand in the bathtub which was more child-like than feminine.

I like to think that Inn Keeper Ed is more akin to feminine Talent Show Ed but without the sadness. Reading David Jenkins season 3 pitch/fanfic it seems they’ve fallen into a pattern of domesticity that suits them both. Stede’s good with people and good at making people feel seen and valued, while Ed’s artistic and strategic talent creates the product. It also fits with their backgrounds. Ed created and worked hard to achieve what he had. Stede “lucked” it so had to learn to fit in. Both are now a long way from the original premise of wanting what the other has, so even if no platform picks up Season 3, I am happy that they found their authentic selves together.

Ah, I wrote heteronormativity instead of heterosexuality and can’t edit. Apologies.

It’s not that heterosexuality is bad. It’s compulsory heterosexuality. Stede lives in a comphet society. A society with very narrow definitions of family and male behaviour. Stede feels he is ‘doing masculinity wrong’ because everyone in his life has always said there is only one way to do it.

Awww… Gypsy went to see Rhys. 🥰

I feel the message of the show is that it’s okay to be your real and full self and reject society’s expectations.
This is certainly one of the messages, yes. The reason Stede starts the show as passively suicidal is that he is a gender non-conforming gay man, forced to live in a society that is homophobic, steeped in patriarchy, heteronormative, with a pronounced and fixed gender binary. Compulsory heterosexuality. Trying to fit into that society as a femme gay man is what's killing him. Running away to be a pirate is a last ditch attempt to try and be himself, for the first time in his life, or die trying. He doesn't expect to live long - most pirates don't. He doesn't even know if he wants to live. But he couldn't carry on in 'traditional' society as he was.

Likewise with Ed. Ed is a fiercely intelligent, creative, sensitive, indigenous gay man who also likes soft things. He's had to try and live in that same, toxic world, with added racism thrown in as an extra challenge. For Ed too, any sign of 'softness' or gender fluidity needed to be stamped out in favour of traditional (toxic) masculinity. BB was his way of surviving. But he is even more obviously suicidal than Stede was, waiting to drown. Again, heteronormative society and toxic masculinity are to blame. As for touch, his pats and slaps with CJ conform to the trad masculine ideal and are part of the BB persona. The gentle looks and touches he gives Stede are more to do with the fact that he is falling in love but is deeply uncertain as to whether that love is returned (oblivious Stede strikes again). There is a whole thing about Ed and touch that's tied up with racism, status and consent that keeps showing up throughout S1 especially, and which I'm not getting into now :)

Back to society, Nigel/Chauncy and Izzy are the main characters we see that are forcing Stede and Ed into those roles and punishing them if they stepped out of line. That's their role in the narrative. The beauty of the show is that by the end of S2, our beautiful men do succeed in escaping traditional society and the people who we saw trapping them in the roles that were killing them are gone.

As for heterosexuality, Olu and Zheng are part of a polycule with Jim and Archie, so I'm not sure that counts. I think Mary and Doug are the only positive heterosexual couple on the show, and even they are an illicit affair that crosses class boundaries (oh, class, another problematic theme!). Even the wedding boat couple looked like they hated each other!

Are Zheng and Olu in a polycule? Does Zheng know this :D? Personally, I can’t see Zheng being that into Archie or Jim. Zheng’s all about the lovely, gentle Olu (and who can blame her). Is the polycule idea fanon?

The shows intention was definitely that there was a polycule. Due to the cuts, it's a lot less obvious than it was supposed to be. But the cast have confirmed it.

I would be interested in your touch theory and how that ties into racism @TriceratopsRocks:)

I always saw it as both thinking the other is too good for them.

Stede’s a gentleman landowner with high social status and wealth (so is perceived as being better than “people like us”) and Blackbeard is famous, a living legend and everything a heroic pirate should be.

I see both believing they’re boxing above their weight. Stede in his oblivion to Blackbeard’s (obvious when you rewatch it) sexual and romantic attraction to him. Blackbeard leaving with Jack with the line “You were always going to find out who I am”…so I’ll save myself the pain…cue Will Young’s Leave Right Now :D

I can't find the posts I was thinking of, @2pence but something about racism and a lack of consent over touch. Eg Antoinette feeling free to touch Ed's beard as one example of the racist treatment he receives on the party boat. They treat him more as an exotic plaything than a person. Contrast with Stede's offering touch in the bathtub in 1.6, but waiting for Ed to move his head to actually make the connection.

Right, historical fiction for you @CarterBeatsTheDevil. These are the ones that jumped into my head. And I hope I've linked the right cowboy one - haven't found the other one yet :)

Once Upon a time in San Francisco (1978 - blimey, it's scary that I'm classing a year I remember as historical 😂). This is a WIP I thought might remain unfinished, and I don't think I've read the latest chapter yet. But I remember thinking it was brilliant.

Kalahari Down and sequels (cowboys)

Starman (1970s astronauts)

First Time as Tragedy Second Time as Farce (Stede owns a club in Berlin 1934, Ed is time traveller)

Thank you for these @TriceratopsRocks - can't wait!

His hair, and the man that he is

Temporal Discounting is writing a fic based on Lost in Translation which is one of my favourite movies https://archiveofourown.org/works/64964800/chapters/167009674#workskin
It’s a WIP with a bumpy schedule but I think it’ll be a lot of fun.

TD is also doing Reverse Big Bang this year. It’s a fantasy with the boys flying on dragons. I may or may not have helped with naming said dragons (if they get used). I’ll let everyone know when this one is up too. I’m not sure I’m allowed to reveal the artist collab but it’s one of the best. I wish I had time and energy (and talent) to get involved in these events.

Thank you for that, @MrsJellybee. You know, I've only just looked up what a Reverse Big Bang actually is! I've read so many things that were written for one, but had never questioned how they actually worked. Just in case anyone else doesn't know, it's when artists create the fan art first and then authors sign up to write a fic based upon that art. So Google tells me, anyway. I also wish I were more creative because it sounds a fantastic thing to be involved with, but for now my contribution remains appreciative comments and kudos.

Edited because I forgot to say that I really like Temporal Discounting's fics, so I'm looking forward to this one :)

Back to historical fiction, I had intended to include a link to the Reno Cure for completion. I know you've all read that one already, but for me it's the best and I don't like to leave it out! So here it is:

The Reno Cure (1950s main story plus later short sequels)

Sadly I can't find the other US western fic. I must not have bookmarked it. In that one, Ed was the leader of a bunch of outlaws and Stede owned a ranch. He finds a very injured Ed on the border of his property and takes him in. Just in case someone else knows it! If not, it may turn up again.

It’s sooo good!

Nice shoes

Nice man!! 😁 (I do like that picture very much).

Just gonna post all the Rhys tour pics cos he’s a smokeshow.

https://www.tumblr.com/eddie-redcliffe/782352658906464256?source=share

Oh, her little face when he took the mask off 😆🥰 That's true love

I think some of you played the 2048 Taika game? You might enjoy this fic!
https://archiveofourown.org/works/56385268/chapters/143371999#workskin

Ha! Where do you think I found the Taika 2048 game in the first place 🤣 It's a great little fic.

(I should be embarrassed to admit this, but the Taika game I am currently playing has a score so far of over 284k, a biggest tile of 131,072 and has nearly 32 hours of played time. I've been at it for months!)

On another note, I have lost a fic I wanted to re-read. Short story. Stede and Ed are at an art exhibition, Ed introduces himself as Stede's partner. Stede panics because he didn't know they were dating. Ed takes Stede aside and they talk through their relationship and misunderstandings. I'm currently working my way through 18 pages of fics with the "oblivious Stede Bonnet" tag. It's quite slow going because of course I have to read all the ones I haven't read yet (even though I know it's not the fic I'm looking for). And re-read some I know I've read before but enjoyed. And some I don't even remember, but then get the message "you have already left kudos here"... 😁 But anyway, if anyone knows the fic I mean, please do let me know!

Owltrousers on Bluesky (the lady doing OFMD in Bayeux tapestry form) has smashed it out of the park again with Episode 9 🤯

Oh!!! Ed in the rowing boat 😭😭😭