Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

As much as I love this series, Rylance is and always was wrong for the part. He's too gentle. Cromwell is often described as a 'thug' by historians and while of course this can be challenged, Rylance's Cromwell just doesn't seem ruthless enough. He seems so much more refined and dignified than all the 'gentleman'. Rylance is would have been better as Thomas More imo

I thought that was the point of Hilary Mantel’s characterisation , seeing things from Thomas Cromwell’s POV so he will seem more humanised, gentle and reasonable. Surely his thug image is set by those who were victorious over him, thug as opposed to their gentleman and tough and from Putney.

I really like Rylance’s characterisation and feel the “gentleness” allows the viewer to experience what happened to Cromwell as him. Rather than view him as a story character. I really feel and remember his pain. And there’s so much you see that’s unscripted. I don’t think a more thug actor could have conveyed the feelings of flashbacks as he entered Anne Of Clive’s bedchamber of the last time he was there Jane Seymour was dying. His everyday man gentleness is why we all love him so much.

Also from watching the series I get a sense of “fighting for survival” which to an outsider could be read as “ruthless” - so humanising what historians frame as ruthless. He sets up those to be executed along with Anne Boleyn because he loves Wolseley and is always guided by his voice, whereas historically it’s seen as him casting innocents to death to fulfill the King’s whims.

He does look like a thug in his portrait but he was obviously so much more - intelligent, cultured and clever. If Henry had not been so paranoid in his latter years, Norfolk would never have managed to destroy Cromwell.
I have never understood why Cromwell didn't bring down Norfolk after the fall of the Boleyns. Was he intimidated by Norfolk's lineage and is there any explanation in the books?
Of course Norfolk hated him because he was a wealthy, working class 'upstart'. Not much has changed.

Norfolk was extremely lucky. Sentenced to death and then Henry died the day before he was allegedly due to be executed! He then lived to his 80s and died in his bed, which is more than you can say for many of the men who surrounded him throughout his life.

Now that was lucky!

I think that Rylance is miscast because he has that reedy voice, and speaks in a monotone and as if he's in a constant state of perplexion. I think someone with a stronger voice would have been better.

Yeah, but he's nothing like as good!

Definitely agree . I like his nuance .

"Gentle" is not a word I would use to describe Mantel's Cromwell.

Humane? Yes, at times. But gentle? No.

And I don't think anyone wants a 'thug actor', whatever that is. Just someone with more of the physicality associated with Cromwell. Rylance just doesn't capture that for me. He's too slightly built, and as someone said, has a reedy voice and lacks presence. James Purefoy seemed to me like a good Cromwell, but maybe not subtle enough. He would definitely have the right physical presence however.

Henry never said Goodbye to Wolsey, Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Cromwell or Katherine Howard. He loved them all but they had powers of persuasion over him, intellectually or sexually.

Interestingly, one person who did manage to get to speak to Henry after being issued with an arrest warrant was Catherine Parr. And it resulted in Henry denying he had ever wanted her arrested at all.

As you say, his usual practice was to behave normally, even warmly, to those he had turned against. Then he would disappear behind his courtiers and they would never see him again to plead their case.

I’d have liked to see a ‘bruiser’ actor type cast against his usual type. It’s harder to think who, exactly! But ideally someone shortish, heavy-set and bullish-looking, someone who looks like a boxer run to seed, but still capable of gouging your eyes out. People have to be credibly afraid of him in a physical way.

Ciaran Hinds would have been good. He has that physicality. Great actor.

Just checked and he's probably too old now.

Stephen Graham?

I’d have liked to see a ‘bruiser’ actor type cast against his usual type. It’s harder to think who, exactly! But ideally someone shortish, heavy-set and bullish-looking, someone who looks like a boxer run to seed, but still capable of gouging your eyes out. People have to be credibly afraid of him in a physical way.

I would have loved David Morrisey to be cast. I think he can convey that mix of physical brutality if needed but with the intelligence, charm and kindness.

A younger Ciarán Hinds would be perfect @SwedishEdith, you’re right. I really like Rylance, mind, but he’s a different Cromwell to the book portrayal. Still wonderful though.

Oh, the last two episodes were heartrending as the noose closes around Cromwell. But such incredible acting from both MR and DL. The scene where Henry and Cromwell stand eye to eye was marvellous. Also the scene in which Henry is thinking up disguises to meet Anne. ( though I wish they had shown the meeting).

I will miss this show so much.

That’s not a bad idea… I don’t think I’ve seen Stephen Graham in anything, @duc748, though I recognise him.

That was a great scene.
If he hadn't of gone in disguise it would probably all have turned out differently. AoC would have hidden her true feelings if she knew she was meeting Henry. They might have have had children who became monarch and the consequences of that would have altered history eg Scotland might have stayed independent if James had not been king.

Indeed. Though it turned out well for her. She was probably the happiest woman in England.

I've just watched the last episode. I think it was a fitting and poignant ending, thank goodness they didn't show the botched execution. However I think the first part of the final episode is quite slow.

I'm sad it's over and wish there was a way they could continue the story with what happened next ie. Catherine Howard, with the same actors and production. But alas, Cromwell's story is done.

I agree with you @virgocatlover - the story should be continued. Poor Catherine Howard.

Just watched the last episode too.
I feel truly bereft!
Would love it to continue but without Mark Rylance it would be a 'no' from me 😞

I've just watched it. I agree it would be great to see the story continued with the same cast, but since it has all been shown from Cromwell's point of view, I'm not sure how they could do it.