Wolf Hall - The Mirror and the Light

[virgocatlover]

Series 2 is confirmed to start Sunday 10th November.

Almost 10 years after the first series, I'm excited to see the third and final novel brought to life.

waving @piscofrisco I’m going to have to watch this in the afternoon next week or I won’t sleep!

I think I'm too tired, what triggered the attack in council?

Me too!

Are they really going to show Cromwell's botched execution

This was so (traumatically) well done in the books. The opening scene of Wolf Hall where Cromwell is being beaten by his father “and now get up” and then full circle to his execution.

I think the execution won’t be shown graphically, in the same way that Anne Boleyn’s was portrayed. Again, in the book, there was a line about the noise of the sword being like the whisper of wind through a keyhole that has stuck with me.

Mantel’s writing is sometimes like poetry, IMO.

no idea. I dare say Mantel has been faithful to what we can know about those times and people, but to see Cromwell lashing out like a street loony having been hitherto super sharp and calculating is a bit weird?

Is it because he sees William Kingston and so knows he is about to be arrested?

I am really enjoying the series but I have to say there is so much more nuance and development in the books that the series just lacks – although season 1 did it slightly better, I think, despite covering much more material. As Gregory would say, it’s all a bit “and now no more for lack of time”…! Anyway, if you’ve enjoyed the series and not read the books I do implore you to give them a go. Stick at it, her writing is dense and intricate and doesn’t hold your hand so it can take a while to get into the rhythm of it, but the rewards are infinite.

I love this so much. I'm no expert on the Tudors and have only read the first book, but I've been so drawn into it and am dreading the final episode. I know it's been said so many times now that it's verging on cliche, but it's just so good to have prime time TV that treats the audience like grown ups, and requires you to put down your phone and concentrate properly for an hour. I'll miss it.

I've just finished watching the last episode. It all accelerated at the end. I was wondering if I'd missed something. One minute Henry was having a pleasant chat with Cromwell (although there was a sense of finality about it). Then Cromwell was attacked. But I'm sure all will be revealed in the next episode.

One thing which fascinates me is the wider European picture. All of the nations forming alliances and then falling out, and the constant threat of war. A marriage such as the one between Henry and Anne of Cleeves was so much more than a mere marriage - it was a strategic move. Obviously I knew this already. But the series paints a vivid picture of the negotiations and discussions which would have taken place.

I almost felt sorry for Henry at one point. For all his might and power, he was obliged to marry someone who didn't take his fancy so as to save England from the threat of war. Or at least, that's how Cromwell sold it to him. But of course, that's probably viewing events from a modern perspective. It would have been quite normal back then.

Henry was all over the place after the jousting accident when he was unconscious for 2 hours.
I've read that he changed his mind all the time , denying an opinion he was in favour of that morning.

I read that the reason why he left people and never saw them again was that he knew they could make him change his mind again, so he avoided them.

I think Norfolk got in his ear to get rid of Cromwell, knowing that if the King stayed true to form he wouldn't see Cromwell again so game over for Cromwell.

Henry never said Goodbye to Wolsey, Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Cromwell or Katherine Howard. He loved them all but they had powers of persuasion over him, intellectually or sexually.

Henry was actually pretty weak minded I think. The last person who spoke with him held sway.

One thing which fascinates me is the wider European picture. All of the nations forming alliances and then falling out, and the constant threat of war.
This.
Also, not in the book/programme, but there must have been a consciousness of the Ottoman Empire pushing in from the east

Stripping Cromwell of his status and titles.

I couldn't agree more. It's a rarity

Me too. I spent yesterday eve apart from this programme desperately trying to find anything at all to watch. Just endless rubbish . Why is TV just so generally dire these days? Hundreds of channels of dross, including streaming services. The worry is that younger people just don’t watch terrestrial TV anymore and I fear the BBC will be defunct in ten years. At which point I will give up having a TV.

Yes, that's true, @TheMoonismadeofcheese . Apart from this, I just watched coverage of events in Syria. On iPlayer I've been watching some of the old Attenborough stuff, which is excellent, and Asia. However - good quality dramas? Like rubies in the dust.

My go to when there is rubbish on TV (a regular occurrence!) is to pop on old episodes of West Wing or Buffy!

https://www.history.com/news/did-blood-cause-henry-viiis-madness-and-reproductive-woes

Article putting forward theory that Henry had Mcleod syndrome

Fascinating! Presumably the DNA testing talked about in the last paragraph never actually happened?

Thank you for posting the link again @Ellerby83 I had read the article before but wanted to show DH rather than rely on memory that might not be wholly accurate.

I agree with everyone saying how it's one of the rare things on TV to make you put down the phone etc and focus, but I think it will bear watching again to take everything in properly. I'm particularly enjoying he performances of Henry VIII, Gardiner and Lady Rochford. Not so keen on the portrayal of Norfolk, although that's just a personal preference rather than a reflection on any acting skills.

I think I'll return to watching both series in due course.

Just finished watching episode 5 The Mirror. I also don’t understand how it went from Cromwell being elevated to Lord Chamberlain Earl of Essex to having no title at all and being called traitor within minutes.

I think it's because we as viewers only knows what Cromwell knows. A lot is happening off screen that Crowell and us aren't aware of. I'd imagine Henry has been influenced by others Norfolk, Gardiner etc. Somebody had to be blamed for the Cleeves marriage.

This is a few years old, but worth watching.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09jgjp9

I've just started watching Shardlake on Disney+. Sean Bean is playing Cromwell. He is more how I imagined Cromwell to be than Mark Rylance

Sean Bean is playing Cromwell

One does not simply walk into Hampton Court. Its black gates are guarded by more than just Yeomen of the Guard. There is evil there that does not sleep, and the Great Eye is ever watchful. It is a barren wasteland, riddled with fire and ash and dust, the very air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten thousand men could you do this. It is folly.

Haha SharpOpalNewt. Sean Bean’s in every historical drama as someone. Should’ve known he’d have been Crum too.. He’s the Ms Rabbit of films and tv