Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

Oh golly, no @MrsJellybee I haven't seen that about Stede. He's certainly not 'cringe', except as you say in 2.7. It's like when he's described as a loser, when he most certainly is not! As you say, noone seems to appreciate his awesomeness. Including Stede. But he's had it drilled into him that he's a failure, so it's understandable that he sees himself negatively. Other people have no excuse, except in that his poor self image projects itself outward. He is (more than) adequate!!!

Interestingly, on the Cryptid podcast I was listening to today, Rhys talked about his acting and the characters he plays. They were discussing techniques actors use when they need to cry. One was not blinking so your eyes well up. The other was staring into a bright light (same thing happens). When the others questioned Rhys’ need to cry on camera, him being a comedian, he responded:

“I normally play characters that are pretty forlorn, and also a little pathetic in some ways. They have a confidence they shouldn’t have, but there’s an underlying feature that they aren’t really good enough.”

And then he jokes that he’s talking about himself not the characters :D But this Cryptid episode was recorded three weeks before filming finished on OFMD S1, so Stede would have been foremost in his mind.

@TriceratopsRocks Rhys really does understand what drives the characters he plays. There was a discussion recently about how Rhys never plays a character as if he thinks he’s too good for it. He always commits fully to the part. You can sense sometimes when an actor thinks they’re slumming it or sleepwalking a part. Rhys never does that. He respects all the characters he plays.

So, yeah. The cringe stuff. Makes me mad. One was that Stede’s cringe because he cries all the time. So of course, I had to write an essay rebuttal to that too. 🤣 I honestly don’t think some people understand the show. And some of these are quite young people whom I thought were growing up in a more liberal, emotionally-freer time than we were ever allowed. So, I’m not really sure what’s going on with some of them.

@MrsJellybee it sounds like I need to look up all your Tumblr posts 😁.

Stede is a character who doesn't fit in amongst his peers in Barbados. He's used to hiding his interests, his desires, his whole personality, to try and fit in. He has to leave his home society and find a new 'tribe' in order to become himself. The sad thing is, I'm not actually sure how much things have changed. What's going on with those young people you mention is probably a similar mix of peer pressure, desire to fit in, combined with a lack of critical thinking skills (not sure how well schools teach this now, but that's another topic!). But the fear of being ostracised for 'wrongthink', or being different, can be as bad for young people now as it was for Stede. And I think in some respects it's worse now than when we grew up because of social media, which has a lot to answer for with its quick sound bites instead of considered arguments.

Ok so I seem to have got sidetracked and missed the point I was actually going to make! Which was that it's too easy for people to go along with opinions they read on social media and not really question them. Partly because it's easy, and partly because of the desire not to stand out. Which I see is a very real thing amongst some (many?) of today's young people.

@TriceratopsRocks I see two different types of these posts. One says, Stede’s so cringe etc. and it makes me feel better as I am also cringe. And whilst I’d rather they didn’t use that word either for themselves or Stede, I like that they’re getting comfort from his characterisation.

And the other is folks saying Stede is so cringe. He’s such a loser. He’s so lucky Ed loves him. I think these have an agenda linked to another character though as they appear to have missed the point of the show…

Ah I see what you mean. I'm rarely on Tumblr atm, but even when I am I don't tend to see many of your second group of posts, because I've tried to curate my Tumblr feed to avoid them! I think I just feel very protective of Stede and there's no point engaging with the group of fans you mention.

And I also think cringe is the wrong word for the first group. For me, it has connotations that there is something to be embarrassed about, or ashamed of. So if people use cringe in relation to Stede, to me it seems like they are agreeing with his detractors, that he does actually have something to be a bit ashamed of, which to me is categorically untrue! It's almost irrelevant if they also identify with him, because to me 'cringe' is about him not measuring up to society's expectations. And I believe those expectations are wrong. Neither Stede, nor the people identifying with him in your group one, have anything to be embarrassed about.

One caveat I am well aware of is that words change meanings. My kids (uni age +) use some words in a different context to me, so it's quite possible that I am interpreting cringe differently to how they intend.

@TriceratopsRocks I don’t engage directly with said fans, as like you, I curate my feed, but I see others’ reactions to it. I think a lot of it’s on the former Little Bird Site. I wrote a positive rebuttal called Stede and the Power of Crying.

My DD calls me cringe, but she’s 10, and my very existence is suddenly an embarrassment 🤣

Just seen this on X from David Jenkins

https://x.com/davidjenkinss/status/1842643023357710686?s=46&t=H5yJnnDPSERF9MKmr-pcqA

Ooooh

Screenshot

I’ve just come across this interview with David Jenkins and TW, I think I’ve heard most of the content from different places but nice to read it all together.

https://theplaylist.net/our-flag-means-death-made-taika-waititi-care-about-acting-again-interview-20220623/

Loved this bit from David too about fans noticing all the artistic decisions that make the story what it is:

David Jenkins: To read about some people’s analysis of it is amazing because it gets obsessive where you’re like, “This is going to get weird. Oh no.” But then, their obsession with this show, it can go wrong at any minute and that’s fine. But up until now, the amount of focus they give everything where you came up…You do a production meeting and you’re exhausted and you’re f**ked up and tired and you’re like, “Yeah, that’ll be blue.” And we’ll paint it blue. And then months later they pick up, oh, that thing was blue in that scene, that choice was amazing. And you make a million of those decisions. And to have them pay attention and pick it apart in such a lovely way gives every department it’s due, and every person who worked on the thing it’s due, and every idea that you came up with on a random Tuesday is celebrated. It’s amazing when that happens. I don’t think it happens very often.

Thank you @Franklefoot I just came to post this.

It’s so bittersweet 😭 I always felt there had to be a time jump so as David says, until it becomes ridiculous, it’s never off the cards. No official plans. But never say never. Keep banging the drum.

I also love that David thinks we ‘appreciate’ the show.

Appreciate? 🤣😍

@BillStickersIsInnocent amazing interview.

Three things - I am so glad they chose not to break the fourth wall. The various emotional layers, I think, are what is so intoxicating about this show. And yes! I have always thought it was emotionally like The Remains of the Day which is also a hidden love story.

I watched the pilot on Sunday as a cosy afternoon treat. Some brilliant lines - Buttons to Stede on the brewing mutiny - “don’t take it personally, they just don’t think you’re good at your job, or like you”.

The jam room
Rory Kinnear being fabulous
Stede crying rather a lot
Roach sewing his own arm back on
Stede protecting his books in a storm

Ah I love them and miss them.

There’s a fabulous YouTube compilation of Lucius - with a close up of him in the jam room bit. He’s properly grooving to it, which you can’t appreciate in real time as it’s such a short scene. Love Nathan!

I know there's a S2 watch-along at the moment, but I adore S1 so much, I think that's what I'm going to do. When I get a night to myself with the TV that is - it's not really happening atm. Maybe we need another TV... :)

There are some wonderful moments in the pilot. I'm going to have to watch it again now too :) In fact, I just did (I nipped onto iPlayer and promptly forgot I'd started typing this post!). I'm supposed to be doing admin, but I have to get my priorities right. Who needs house insurance anyway 😂

I actually wish I hadn't listened to Rhys explain his two 'how to cry on demand' acting techniques, because it got me wondering which one he was using here - took me a liitle out of the moment. I think I need to just watch it lots more to make up for it 😁. Have some pictures! And look at how tiny that crew bathtub is! Poor Roach. What I really wanted was a picture of Frenchie in his bright fuscia outfit, but I couldn't get a good screenshot that showed it off.

Do you have a link to that Lucius compilation, @DJ47 ?

Just dropping by to post this photo of Rhys because I don’t need a reason. Just oh my god. 🥰

I haven’t seen the other Nathan compilation, but have you seen this BTS on Samba’s insta?
www.instagram.com/reel/DAwbRa9CiHM/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Oh that's so funny, @MrsJellybee . I hadn't seen it. But while I was on there, I spotted he posted the Merstede scene a couple of days ago too. So now I'm sat here with real tears, not actory fake ones 😭Going to have to find some funny Lucius now to recover!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh54TQsXQ4M&pp=ygUPTHVjaXVzIG91ciBmbGFn
Lucius being a mood 🥰

Thank you :) That was entertaining while I ate my lunch! But how could they have omitted his "don't be a dick" rant to Ed in 1.7? I've had to go back and watch that sequence as well now 😁

Well, he’s certainly not grumpy here… 🫠

What a wonderful picture...😍

Isn't that when he's talking about how much he loves working with Rhys and there are wee clips of them messing around BTS? No wonder he's smiling!

I saw this last night - not one I'd seen before.