Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

@TriceratopsRocks absolutely. All of this. The show is anti colonialist, anti heteronormativity, and anti hereditary privilege. Stede has at least two out three privileges. He’s white and wealthy. Stede even manages the charade of heteronormativity for a while. Ed has zero privilege. He’s too brown, too poor and well, too male to be Stede’s bride in the coloniser world. Piracy is a criminal subculture which lets people who will never make it legitimately create their own reward systems. Stede has to return to Ed. There is no universe in which Ed could track down Stede. It’s why they have to create their own new world away from everything.

Have another pic 🤭 (Taika getting into the zone to smash furniture)

I think a lot of Stede's and Ed's actions are self preserving in their essence and can look like selfishness.

Choice is also key. Olu said it way back at the beginning of Season 1; "piracy is not a choice, we don't do it because we enjoy it".

Stede, with all his privileges, is not free to choose who he loves. To echo the title of the last episode in S1 when he returns to Mary, "there he is", still Stede, he finds he cannot run away from himself. Wherever Stede goes so does all the trauma from being the disappointing boy who was bullied for living outside of the expectations of his circumstance.

Ed finds himself trapped by his own circumstance; his success and fame. He is not free to step outside of the confines and expectations of "Blackbeard". As Izzy states, "Ed has to watch his back".

Ed and Stede's relationship is a choice. They choose each other and take that leap of faith together.

In 2.7 Man on Fire, Ed has chosen to live. Stede's S1 rejection broke him to the point of suicide and he can't risk going back there given his increase in vulnerability and attachment after their night together. Ed is panicking, acting on fear of further rejection. He knows if Stede chooses piracy and fame (everything Stede has told him he wants) then he is dead. Ed's in a lose-lose situation. If Ed stays in piracy with Stede, he is dead. If Stede rejects Ed again, picks piracy over him, he is dead. Ed chooses to live, chooses to leave.

Great analysis @2pence!

@mrsjellybee that pic makes me think of teaching.

Person A: butter wouldn't melt
Person B: ooo eer press the call out button?!

😂

Yeah, but Person A is actually the troublemaker. Person B is jaded because they’re gonna get it in the neck for Person A’s behaviour.

There’s also a sliding scale of behaviour for those called Rhys/Reece/Reese/Rees depending upon the spelling. From angel to well…

But I shan’t explain further lest I cause offence. 🙂

If you know you know, @MrsJellybee 😂

Sadly it shows how little has changed in terms of class equity since the 18C. Nowadays it's Rees asking his Mum why they can't have nice things. @Phineyj @MrsJellybee

@2pence here’s my tumblr piece on this very issue (with additional comments)
https://www.tumblr.com/crimson-and-clover-1717/761751990063759360/reblogging-with-insteadings-comment-because-ive?source=share

Taika being silly at the Emmys

Also, why is he dressed like a French waiter?

That's anl truly excellent post, @MrsJellybee . I hadn't seen it. Likewise the posts you've linked in the text. 👏

I love Taika being silly. Have you seen him playing with Pedro Pascal?

And we played D&D yesterday here. I didn't realise Taika was a fan
https://youtube.com/shorts/Y4jbVEEmHd0?si=0tzH_1qZeNxUA8N0

Interesting reading, thanks for the link @MrsJellybee. Always good to know that the people within the system do care. It must be frustrating being on the frontline but I'm sure you have been that one person who believes in someone and that can make all the difference when no one else, including themselves, does.

Still, at least we're moving forward in terms of equality, even if the idea that different people need different things often gets overlooked. I was really inspired by Idris Elba's stance on knife crime where he's looking to the disenfranchised youth themselves to give the politicians the answers. A shift towards equity should find a solution. I remain ever hopeful.

I was going to mention Maslow's hierarchy but now all I can think of is the pyramid of needs that was posted here with the bottom rung consisting entirely of Our Flag Means Death 😆

Always good to know that the people within the system do care.
Oh, I cared. I cared so much I’m going to be on antidepressants the rest of my life.

Sorry to hear that @MrsJellybee, teaching's a tough gig. Respect to you 🫡

@TriceratopsRocks I do love a silly Taika. I wish he’d been at the Emmys for our show though. I’m going to pretend he was… 💭

I hadn’t seen that clip. Thank you 😁

@2pence thank you. I’m six years out. I teach online now. English as a foreign language. I still get to teach English and it’s a lot more enjoyable.

Me too, MrsJ :) In fact, I've just spent a little time smiling at various clips of him being silly in interview 😁. I just also came across this little testament to the New Zealand crew (with quite a few 2.7 clips) and thought it lovely.

Edited to add - the 'icon' pic of Taika mid hair swish is what made me click the link. Loving BTS as I do, I was really pleased to see what it was actually about. Although not silly at all!

@TriceratopsRocks oh, I love that BTS. I think they cut a lot of Union stuff out of the original reel.

Have you ever seen this?? David is totally messing with Rhys here. How the heck does he not crack up? Total pro, there, but he he so on the brink of corpsing. 🤣

www.tumblr.com/piratecaptainscaptainpirates/761716445220585472?source=share

I love that clip so much, I never realised directing was literally in your earhole.

Oh blimey yes it's hilarious 😂 And Rhys' face is so expressive! I do love that clip. I have no idea how he does it either.

At what point does this obsession start to become a problem… because I googled Xmas jumpers today. 🙈

Haha!! It's never a problem. I promise! 😁 But Christmas jumpers hadn't even occurred to me. I've been planning on a crew for life hoodie. Just need to decide on the size.

I'm not a fan of the third one (never liked that image), but the others could all work 😁. Actually the 2nd one (flags) could work all winter, there's no specific Christmas motif. Looks cozy too. Hmmmm....

@TriceratopsRocks i love the second one. Very autumn colours. And the mermaid skeletons. I’m just picturing wearing it at great aunt Margaret’s though, Boxing Day 🤣

The third one always reminds me of Tom Hardy in Venom

Mermen would be my pick! The passive aggression one would have been great for Christmas on my side of the family, but we'll be with my husband's much less complicated family for Christmas so loved-up mermen is the way to go.

I'm googling plus-sized pirate coats. Someone talk me down.