Our Flag Means Death - Thread 4: Roll up, roll up! Come join us for more pirate obsession!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy again mateys! Can you believe we are now aboard thread 4? Stick around for chat about this brilliant show, its cast, its music, fan edits, fan fiction and more than a little obsessing over our fabulous leads - pictures extremely welcome!

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Go watch it (on BBC iPlayer), then come back and join us 😀

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think it's not for you. But it’s actually a show about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, three full threads and many re-watches later.

If you think this might appeal, do watch it and come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware that it's a show that needs time. It’s structured like a theatre production, with a prologue and 3 acts. The 2nd lead arrives (briefly) in episode 3. Episode 4 is the start of Act 1, where the tone changes and the main story begins. You need to give it at least 4 episodes, and from there it just gets better and better. It still took me several more episodes to fully appreciate what I was watching, but by then I was hooked and had to immediately watch it all over again. And again. And again! If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might well be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204
Thread 2 : https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5076581-our-flag-means-death-thread-2-still-utterly-brilliant-and-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=136060611
Thread 3: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5101662-our-flag-means-death-thread-3-its-still-utterly-brilliant-we-are-still-obsessed?reply=137315706

There was some wild talk about getting David.

David would've been amazing! I love how proud he is of his show and his cast - isn't the tweet below beautiful?

Other than him (and Taika, obviously) the person I would've loved to have would be Madeleine Sami - she has the most fantastic energy. But she's busy filming season 2 of Deadloch which, for anyone who hasn't seen it already, is brilliant and the closest thing in tone to our show that I can think of despite having very different themes.

I've just joined the wrong facebook group by mistake😳so no useful info from me.

Edited to say you can't see DJ's comment unless you click on it - sorry, not sure how else to share screenshots from twitter.

@lizziesaurusx it’s called Star Fury: The Republic of Pirates. It’s a private group.

And yes, that’s just Rhys 🥲 The world needs more Rhys.

Thank you! That's the one for which I currently have a request pending. I requested to join one yesterday called 'Starfury: Republic of Pirates fan page', and the first post says 'there's now an official page' and gives the link, so I must've missed the official one in my facebook search - a surprising number of groups come up when you search 'republic of pirates'.

Dawww. Look at him in his frilly nightgown.

Oh he's just lovely 🥰. Personally I'd have loved to see Joel Fry or Madeline Sami as the first time guest. Especially Madeleine. I was thinking I'd want to know how she felt joining an already established cast in S2, but actually as she's known the NZ gang for at least 20 years (she was in Rahdirahdirah or whatever it's called) I'd guess it would just be having fun with old friends.

I honestly don’t think I could cope with Joel Fry there too. My fan-girl-o-meter is already up to 11 over Rhys and Nathan.

And still clutching the intended murder weapon

Someone’s asked on the fb page about a group photo. Apparently it might happen and will be announced nearer the time.

I wonder if we could get all of us with all of them

OMG - I’ve just done the gold ticket upgrade and hotel booking. AND there might be a group photo??!! 💷🏴‍☠️😜

@DJ47 oh yay! 💛⭐️

@CarterBeatsTheDevil you still have to pay as individuals though, I think. We can’t split the cost. Con and Nathan together is £70. A full group photo will be a lot. I’m tempted for Nathan at £35 though.

I think I would probably want Rhys and Nathan, but I haven't booked anything yet. I don't enjoy having my photo taken so I am not sure it's worth the money for me!

Aaagh! Of course I've decided that I really want that gold upgrade, but I can't get it till next week. I can't be the only one with a standard ticket! Fingers crossed it's still available on Monday. 🤞🤞🤞

I don’t either. But I’m comforting myself with the idea that I’m not the important person in the photo. I’m the add-on 🤣

I think you’ll be okay. 🤞🏻

If I hadn't decided I wouldn't worry at all. Now I've decided, I'm anxious 😆 I'll have to pretend I'm still not sure 😉

So, my rewatch has been totally derailed for a while now because of family stuff, but I did watch 2.7 recently. A contentious episode! I know some of you don't watch it and I understand why, but there’s such a lot here. And I’ll apologise now because I started typing and couldn’t stop! And because I typed it, you're getting it 😜

Breakfast in bed. Both Stede and Ed are calm, happy, relaxed and communicating. Ed’s actions are certainly not those of someone who thinks last night was a mistake. We get the wonder of Stede bare-chested, wrapped in his bedding (swoon) 😍 reminiscent of the mermaid. The rings on the windowsill - still my favourite “Oh!” moment and proof that you can still discover new things about the show after 10s of watches. And Ed's robe; I love that Gypsy Taylor designed it with both Ed and Stede's colours to represent their coming together. And Taika kept it!. But get lost Izzy😠So inappropriate - interrupting a private moment by yanking the curtain open, showing how he ignores reasonable boundaries and behaviour. Stede is annoyed but Ed is just resigned, he’s so used to it. Our boys were communicating well here and it was cut short.

The coconut shack. Ed takes Stede on a date! Watch their hands - oh my😛. And running off without paying? They are playing - giggling and having fun like the best friends they still are (again, no remorse here). Ed is supportive of Stede’s newfound fame. He only looks worried later when Stede is obviously getting carried away in Jackiez. Ed knows that fame is meaningless and thinks it’ll be a bit of fun, but Stede doesn’t understand this yet.

But Stede, Stede, what are you doing? He has spent all this time showing that piracy can be done differently yet here he is immersing himself in the toxic culture he’s been the antithesis of. But it’ll be the first time in Stede’s life that he’s got this sort of adulation and getting carried away is understandable (like Ed did at the 1.5 party). We know S1 is Stede going from a puppet to a real boy, and S2 is Stede becomes a man (Alex Sherman). But real men have human failings and Stede's are out in force here.

Ed running away. This whole conversation is one big miscommunication - each believing the opposite of what the other actually means. Ed said last night was a mistake, meaning it’s too soon, but Stede thought Ed regretted the sex (and the relationship?). The fish? in 2.5 Stede wanted to make Ed feel good because he cares, but that 'whatever' made Ed think he'd lied and didn’t care. Fishing = change. Stede sees Ed panicking/self sabotaging, but to Ed, Stede’s lack of support meant he doesn’t think Ed capable of change. "It's everything about fishing." They are the fish. And Stede belittled the fish. They didn’t get to have the conversation they desperately needed, which was Ed expressing his worries that Stede wants to go 'all in' with traditional piracy when Ed wants out, whereas actually Stede will do whatever it takes to make Ed happy. If only they hadn't been interrupted that morning when they were just starting to talk about this.

In the fight with Zheng the moves Stede used with Izzy don’t work. With Izzy, he was energised and confident. With Zheng (a far more competent opponent), everything is falling apart and he seems both desperate and a bit half hearted. Ed has gone (his reason for living). His other family are leaving him. He tried to compensate with his new ‘friends’, but ultimately he’s in this self-destructive spiral. It reinforces how shallow traditional pirating is.

I hated the end of this episode. And although I’ve watched it quite a lot now, I still get that sinking feeling in my stomach every time. So here is a highlight to make it all better - one of my favourite gifs. You all know which one:
https://www.tumblr.com/temporal-discounting/745420423140917248/find-someone-who-caresses-you-like-stede-caresses?source=share

And a little BTS explosion
https://www.tumblr.com/gentlebeardsbarngrill/745510312111898624/samba-bts-shoutout-stunts-dept-v12?source=share

Thank you @TriceratopsRocks. I did have things to say about 2.7, but I don’t know how much energy I have. You’ve covered so much.

Ed’s leaving really hurts me. I’m still trying to make peace with it. This is as far as I’ve got:

Ed could renter piracy with Stede. He can try, but it will probably kill him. He is so done with it. He’s been telling us this since 104. Treading water, waiting to drown. Ed doesn’t want to make Stede choose either. If Stede wants piracy, let him have it. If Stede doesn’t choose now, he will have to at some point, so it’s just easier to rip the plaster off now, sooner rather than later, and let Stede go. Ed’s been cutting off parts of himself since forever to fit others’ expectations, and he’s done doing so. He’s trying to develop self care, but he’s doing it in a really Ed-style, cack-handed way. Latching onto the first thing he can which isn’t piracy isn’t self care.

And Ed’s self esteem is so low that he doesn’t see Stede’s behaviour for what it is. It’s ’You’ve heard of me’. It’s vain Stede in the red suit. But like the red suit, Stede isn’t going to keep up all of this vainglorious behaviour. Stede never wanted piracy. He wants to be a full human. If Ed had hung around until evening, Stede’s day in the sun would be over. But this is Ed. 109 Ed who rows away without even looking for Stede. It’s trauma-driven behaviour. His feelings are also so all over the place, that the intimate experience he’s just had the night before, has left him shaken. He feels vulnerable which is part of intimacy. Subconsciously, he thinks these new feelings are because it was a mistake and vulnerability is a character flaw that needs fixing. Both Ed and Stede are stuck in their shadow sides in 2.7. They’re both reacting to the legacy of childhood trauma.

Anyway, here’s Ed’s (Stede’s) green robe from the title credit art. The lining!

This pics lovely too. Before it all goes tits up.

It doesn’t help that they can’t communicate and have conversations backwards. Stede statement is the answer to Ed’s. Oh, boys.

Crew for life sweatshirt available via Samba’s instagram! I dithered so long over the t shirt I missed out, not repeating that mistake!

Thank you @MrsJellybee , I like your thoughts. And your pics 😁. Good spot about Ed running away parallelling 1.9. So many parallels in this show!

Wrt Ed not wanting to force Stede to choose, by running away he is making the choice for him (same as Stede did in 1.9). Ed is afraid that Stede wants piracy, but Stede would always choose Ed, just like Ed would always have chosen for Stede to stay in 1.9, if they'd talked properly that time too (they could easily have gone somewhere nearer than China, via Barbados!). As you say, it's their backgrounds forcing their actions - Ed's low self esteem and fear of vulnerability, Stede's desire for the validation he's never had. But he knows Ed is just panicking. If only they would communicate more fully, they could easily have sorted this. I have to say that this argument bothers me a lot less than Stede's self destruction later. Because it's so easily solveable, I'm sure they will. Whereas Stede's self destruction later betrayed everything he stood for. And nearly got him killed.

And that robe - no wonder Gypsy Taylor was so proud of it! I think it was the big gay energy podcast interview she talked about it?

Oh wonderful! Go for it. I love mine. I might even get a 2nd 😁

Oh it's hoodies or unisex tees. No V-necks, sadly. But still, choices!! 😁 Here's a link if it helps:
shopstands.com/collections/pirate-goodies/products/samba-schuttes-crew-for-life-tees?variant=43425176060086