Our Flag Means Death: Thread 2. Still utterly brilliant and we are still obsessed!

[TriceratopsRocks]

Ahoy there mateys! Hop aboard our ‘safe space ship’ thread 2, where we can continue to wax lyrical about our favourite show.

If you haven’t yet seen Our Flag Means Death, what are you waiting for? Do go watch it (on BBC iPlayer) and then come back here and join us.

You may have heard that this is a comedy about pirates and think that's not for you. But it’s actually about self-discovery, healing and found-family with a love story at its heart. It does begin as a sort of pirate workplace comedy, but in episode 4 the tone changes and that’s where the main story really starts. The joint leads are both damaged by abusive backgrounds and think they want what the other has. The show is about their healing and their respective journeys. It’s tender, romantic, funny, emotionally intelligent and utterly refreshing. It subverts genre expectations. There is comedy, absurdity and a good amount of heartbreak and despair - sometimes in the same scene! The acting is outstanding (Taika Waititi and Rhys Darby especially). But the writing, music, costumes, sets, the sheer attention to detail – for a show with only 18 half-hour episodes it is still keeping us talking, a full thread and many re-watches later. Can you tell how much I love it?

If you think this might appeal, do watch it, then come back and talk to us. It would be lovely if more were to join our crew. But be aware it's a show that needs time. The 2nd lead doesn’t arrive until the end of episode 3 and that’s when the main story starts. You need to give it at least 4 episodes. It then took me several more to fully appreciate what I was watching but then I was hooked - and had to immediately watch it all over again. If you like Good Omens, What We Do in the Shadows, Ghosts or even Bridgerton, this might be the show for you.

(I’ve kept this spoiler free, but if you scroll down you will no doubt find many, so beware!)

Thread 1: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/telly_addicts/5008593-our-flag-means-death-its-utterly-brilliant-and-i-am-obsessed?reply=135294204

I think that might have been it, yes. It's so clear from that just how much the show meant to him. And looking at melissa's messages, she says didn't even post the ' :( ' bits. Thank you @BillStickersIsInnocent for finding it. I have now got it saved! It prompted me to look at cameo, and there was another one on there that was really good, about OFMD and art. I've downloaded it, but can't link unless I post it somewhere. It's the penultimate one if anyone wants to watch.
https://www.cameo.com/rhysdarby

I adored 'Divers' too. They are now one of my favourite versions of them. And the filthiest 😂. But they are olympic athletes so what can we expect! The rest of the series is definitely worth reading too (in total there are 2 long fics and 3 short stories). The author has said she's going to post a new one when the Paris olympics are on. I'm looking forward to that!
https://archiveofourown.org/series/3357199

Thank you @TriceratopsRocks I’ve read the two long ones and the last of the shorter ones but seem to have missed the other two shorter ones. That’s my evening sorted!

That last one was great wasn't it! I loved how they incorporated all that BTS footage into a fic. And the ad sounded fantastic 🧜🧜‍♂️😁

Just sharing this man’s beautiful words. You’ll need a cameo login.

https://www.cameo.com/rhysdarby/feed/65c08ac48ff686ccb374850d?t=0.009782980513672027&utm_source=Rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_content=TnL5HPStwNw&utm_campaign=1&ranMID=50356&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-MRqtoLcPesHU7vr.7tdWHw

I watched 2.5 the other day and it’s such a joy, my new favourite episode I think. Ed in a jumpsuit and a bell. A ridiculous apology and Stede as his handler fielding questions in full Murray mode. Both Stede and Ed going on personal growth journeys, Stede building confidence in his own abilities, Ed learning to sit with himself. Izzy’s hilarious bitchy remarks about Stede’s competence. And of course the shenanigans with the cursed suit, the dead priests, garlic, superstition. The second YWFTW, the kiss, the thumb war, the romance. And Kevin!

@MrsJellybee Just sharing this man’s beautiful words. You’ll need a cameo login.

Thank you for this link, MrsJellybee. It just opened for me without a special logon.
Rhys asks ‘where do we go from here?’ A good question….

Thank you for the cameo link @MrsJellybee . I must improve my tech skills :)

And it's a great episode, @BillStickersIsInnocent . I like my photos, so here are some of my favourite 2.5 moments...

Oh I’m glad it worked without a login. 🙂 It is a good question. His comments on art and why we need it to be fully human are spot on, and so needed in a world that increasingly only seems to care about monetary considerations.

@BillStickersIsInnocent It’s a great episode. Don’t forget ‘I’m your Captain!’ And Ed’s reaction 😻

The reaction that launched a thousand filthy fics!

Only a thousand? 😁But yes - I love that that reaction of Ed's, plus Stede's rings on the windowsill in 2.6, made certain of their assumed 'extra-curricular' preferences canon 😉😳🔥

2.5 is such a great episode. I find Ed’s chat with the latch very endearing – surely he’s really talking to/about himself: ‘It’s not your fault you’re broken. You didn’t break you, you were just trying to do your job, weren’t you?’ He probably had very few choices as a young boy and growing up in piracy (as we see on meeting Hornigold in 2.3) was brutal, so it’s no surprise that in some ways he’s emotionally broken. The trauma he experienced that was not his fault has led him to behave in some horrific ways, but he’s much more compassionate towards the latch than he is towards himself. And he manages to fix it!

I also like how sometimes in that episode when he’s talking with David Fane, Taika’s accent slips into the softer tone and higher pitch that he uses in Boy, and which he’s said in some interviews is how he talks when in NZ and which is how he talked when growing up partly in a Maori community. Especially when he says (I can’t remember the exact words/order) but something like ‘I’m just hanging on this ladder, as part of my probation’ and then a couple of times in their later conversation too.

It’s Ed’s face when Stede holds his hand for me in 2.5. It’s like he can’t believe someone is being so tender with him. Ed holds Stede’s hand on the beach, and Stede has a death-grip on Ed’s hand in 2.3. But a gentle handhold in the moonlight? Nah, Ed’s never known that.

I also like Ed’s face when Stede says ‘You won’ after the thumb war. We now know it’s improv, and I think we see Taika break through there a bit at Rhys’ quickness and genius. That handslap on Stede’s fist is actually Taika telling Rhys they nailed it again, I reckon. ❤️

@lizziesaurusx thank you for mentioning the accent in Boy. I meant to ask about it. It is interesting to know that is the accent Taika grew up with. I will listen again for when he speaks with David Fane.

From what he says in interviews, it sounds like Taika’s ‘real’ accent is quite a bit Maori/Pacific Islander, but maybe as he grew up both in a Maori community and in Wellington his accent isn't quite as strong as someone who grew up 100% in a rural Maori community (eg the accent he uses in Boy)? His ‘real’ accent is softer and sometimes pitched a bit higher than the one he uses in interviews and in OFMD, but not quite as soft or Maori/Polynesian as Korg in the Thor films, which he said he based on Polynesian bouncers in NZ.

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There’s an interview with Stephen Colbert where he gives an example of what he says is his ‘normal’ accent but says that he has to adjust it in the USA to be better understood.

There are a couple of other bits that highlight the two accents: eg when Izzy is singing in 2.6, Ed asks Stede ‘What’s happening right now’ and then, after Stede replies, says ‘Did what?’ and the pitch of his voice is so different each time that it jumps out, and so I guess it must’ve been a conscious thing to put that in, and I wonder why? The first time I noticed it I rewound as I couldn’t work out who said ‘What’s happening…’ as it didn’t sound like Ed.

The other interview I mentioned (not sure how to add two in one post) - it's towards the end. Shallow but I love his hair in this one.

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@lizziesaurusx very interesting interviews, thanks for posting. If time had allowed, I reckon he could’ve grown his own hair out for Blackbeard!

The fan fic Throat Goat touches on a natural tenor using a lower register when speaking, and the voice harm that can be caused. The fic uses it as a device to explore acceptable forms of masculinity as you likely remember. I presume the writer (Nomadsland, was is?) is familiar with Taika’s natural speaking voice. I hadn’t realised. It’s an interesting accent. Sort of New Zealand-Brummie. Flat vowels. Drawn out. I say that without prejudice, as well, you should hear my Midlands accent 😆

I am very conflicted about Taika Watiti. I always feel I want to kiss him then follow it up with a swift kick.

Interesting about the accents. I've got a bog standard SE one, struggle to understand the MLE (multicultural London English) of my students, and have noted my husband can dial his NE all the way from 'imperceptible' to 'give me a discount, compatriot on the phone from the cable company'.

I got lumbered with some year 10 English cover on Monday (I do NOT know enough about poetry to do such a thing) but I did come across this lovely and rather discussion-relevant poem:

poetryarchive.org/poem/homing/

@Phineyj

This one was on the AQA English Lit syllabus about 20 years ago regarding the Glaswegian accent. Brought about some interesting discussions. My DH is originally from Lancashire. I can’t understand him when he gets with his relatives.

https://genius.com/Tom-leonard-the-six-oclock-news-from-unrelated-incidents-annotated

Same! I find him very physically attractive and very funny. Sometimes in interviews he's really thoughtful and I love how focused he is on representation and diversity. But he also shows distinct signs of trying too hard/showing off sometimes and that side of him is very annoying and interferes with my crush.

Same here. I find him fascinating but confusing. He’s created films that I genuinely love and find touching, funny and just a bit offbeat, and I think the emotional range and nuance in his portrayal of Ed is incredible. He’s funny, clever, thoughtful, ridiculously attractive and I love his quirkiness, his energy and his enthusiasm. When he talks about film making and writing he’s so interesting and considered. But sometimes he definitely comes across as smug and pleased with himself about just how clever, attractive, talented etc he is and that’s really offputting – I wish he’d tone that down a bit. A crush on Ed rather than Taika is less complicated in some ways, though Taika hasn’t made anyone eat his own toes, so he has that in his favour.

I do wonder whether it’s partly being from NZ and not having that British sense of embarrassment about success/talent, of remembering to look humble - less of a filter maybe, a bit blunter? I also think that sometimes he says things that he doesn’t expect be taken at face value because they’re clearly a bit arrogant, but then those comments are taken seriously. But then he’s more than smart enough to know how he’s coming across, so that doesn’t really make sense either.

@MrsJellybee I also like Ed’s face when Stede says ‘You won’ after the thumb war. We now know it’s improv

I didn't know that was improv - that makes these smiles even more lovely knowing that they're at least partly a genuine reaction.

And yes definitely about the Blackbeard hair! Though it would be hard to beat the wig.

@lizziesaurusx thank you for you posts on accents and those interviews (yes he is particularly gorgeous in that 2nd one 😍). It's really fascinating and although I'd clocked some of Ed's different voices, I hadn't connected his accent changing in the scenes with Fang specifically. I'm going to be listening out for that from now on.

What do you think about Ed's voice in Blackbeard's cabin the first time we meet him in 1.3, when he's talking to Izzy "Nice, very good, lovely". The way he says those words just seem really odd, even in comparison with the rest of that scene where he seems to have lowered his pitch a bit (as @MrsJellybee said presumably a masculinity thing because he's being BB in front of Izzy and hasn't met Stede yet?). But I don't remember hearing the odd accent he uses for those few opening words again. I'm going to have to think about Ed's accents and pitch now when I watch - something new to listen for is very exciting! I'm thinking something about his voice becoming more 'natural' as Ed gradually sheds the Blackbeard persona, but I'd have to think about that as I rewatch.

@Phineyj I really love that poem. I used to have a stong regional accent but it's very mild now, although I can bring it back to some extent. When I first went away to Uni, noone could understand me and I got fed up of repeating myself. Then after uni I got a job on the phone and again had problems, so gradually I just toned it down. Now I wish I still had more of it left. One day I may move back to my home county, because it's still my favourite place to be. Maybe then I can reclaim my accent a bit!

I do wonder whether it’s partly being from NZ and not having that British sense of embarrassment about success/talent, of remembering to look humble
I'm not sure about that @lizziesaurusx . I'm sure I've heard Rhys talk about how he had to remember to big himself up more when he moved out to America, because that culture of blowing your own trumpet wasn't what he's used to and it was uncomfortable at first. It did sound like in NZ they are similar to the British wrt modesty. But maybe it's just not to the same extent? I don't know (I think this was on one of the Cryptid podcasts, but I can't remember which one - how are you getting on with those btw?)

P.S. After such detailed analysis of both Ed and Taika's voice and accents, I'm not sure I can believe you if you say your crush is Ed and not Taika - sorry 😉

@lizziesaurusx I didn't know that was improv - that makes these smiles even more lovely knowing that they're at least partly a genuine reaction.

The little head-tilt Ed does when he places his thumb on top to ‘win’, just sends me into the stratosphere. Ed wants to ‘play’. And he gets to play with the love of his life in the moonlight. Snogging, sure. But for Ed the shared playfulness with Stede is everything. It’s what made him fall in love at breakneck speed.

What do you think about Ed's voice in Blackbeard's cabin the first time we meet him in 1.3, when he's talking to Izzy "Nice, very good, lovely". The way he says those words just seem really odd, even in comparison with the rest of that scene where he seems to have lowered his pitch a bit (as @MrsJellybee said presumably a masculinity thing because he's being BB in front of Izzy and hasn't met Stede yet?). But I don't remember hearing the odd accent he uses for those few opening words again.

I have thought about this a fair bit myself. I think first and foremost it’s a misdirect to the audience. It’s part of the not seeing Blackbeard’s face and not yet understanding his motive for wanting to follow the Revenge. It’s likely that’s his ‘Blackbeard voice’, but as you’ve noted @TriceratopsRocks the voice changes slightly in the rest of the scene. I also notice in the follow up scene after Izzy has been to speak with Stede, BB’s voice is softening, especially when he says ‘But did he know who I was?’. That sounds more Ed-like. It’s as if the mere mention of Stede is melting away the BB persona. I think considering Izzy is obsessed with the BB persona, it’s interesting that he refers to him as ‘Ed’ or ‘Edward’ in these scenes. Izzy hates it when others do this, and I think it’s because he believes he is the only one who should be allowed the intimacy of using the name. Izzy is special. The crew of the Revenge call him Blackbeard, and he introduces himself as Blackbeard. But Stede doesn’t even recognise him as such and Ed introduces himself as ‘Ed’, which puts Stede on par with Izzy from the off in the perceived intimacy stakes. Izzy doesn’t realise they’re not actually on par. Stede has in fact rearranged the Sun, Moon and stars for Ed within seconds of meeting, possibly even through just hearing about him.

I read a comment a while back that you don’t really understand the show until you realise that in the early BB scenes, Izzy isn’t Ed’s first-mate, he’s Ed’s gaoler. And the Stede plan is a gaolbreak. 🤯