Raye Racist

[AnonymousUser6]

Having never heard of Raye before her BAFTA success last night I decided to listen to some of her music. Was somewhat enjoying it until her lyrics “All the white men CEOs, fuck your privilege
Get your pink chubby hands off my mouth, fuck you think this is?”
I personally feel these are racist lyrics and they are unacceptable.

Whiteness is not nor has it ever been an insult. White supremacy is so prevalent that by age 5 white children are socialised to believe whiteness is better. The protection of whiteness is so ingrained and it is so exclusionary, that for pages of this thread it has been ignored that these two mixed race women both have 75% white ancestry.

What does it say about the experiences of people of colour that they both held so apart from their predominant heritages. Sam Kerr has denied that she said that, it’s taken over a year to charge her and yet it’s automatically assumed she’s lying. Meanwhile, when a woc complains about racism on here there are always dismissals, denials and talk of intentions. Perhaps some of you who are so committed to your whitelash should ask yourselves, if you would be willing to assume the socio-economic consequences of actual racism.

Anti-white prejudice definitely does exist but reverse racism does not. Neither of these are examples of the former. Raye has talked before about the uncomfortable reality that as a woc she was not nurtured and her achievements were not celebrated in the same way as her white peers. In the same way that so many are dismissive of Sam Kerr, I call BS in relation to the police account. It did not happen.

I call BS in relation to the police account. It did not happen.

If there is footage as per the body cam, it will be interesting to what happens.

I think we avoid white people being the victims of racism at our peril. Jews are the obvious example of a group of predominantly white people who have experienced horrendous racism.

There are plenty of examples of racism is some predominantly Muslim countries where white skin colour is associated with being a non Muslim and therefore allowing white women in particular to be treated with impunity.

There is a comprehensive list of racial slurs here and in general all should be avoided irrespective of ethinicity. I feel a racial slur is a racial slur and no body should be entitled to use them; it can't be an excuse that one group feels a sense of victimhood and some how thinks a pair is somehow allowing equality.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

whats your point?

no one is saying prejudice and discrimination doesn’t exist

@mids2019 I’m of the opinion that not all anti-semitism is racism although it definitely can be. There is no need to lump it in with the experiences of poc when it can be so different in nature, not doing so doesn’t make it any less wrong.

Anti-white discrimination does exist but I would argue that your example is predominantly misogyny. If an Arab girl presented herself in a certain way, she wouldn’t be exempt from poor treatment. Also, I highly doubt that a white woman would generally be treated more poorly than African or Asian women of the same economic background.

It doesn’t need to be called racism to be acknowledged as bad. Whatever you’re going to be called is not informed by centuries of oppression or negative stereotypes you encounter on a daily basis, so even on an interpersonal level it will be unjust and unpleasant, but it’s not going to be the same experience.

It is necessary to separate out because what we’re already starting to see very clearly, is that the majority will take instances of this “anti-white racism” and behave as though they are more important than the infinitely more impactful racism that poc face. That then does nothing to create a more equal world. It is just defensively used to counteract criticism of white supremacy in society and just reinforces the same situation in which white people are always prioritised.

It seems odd that white supremacy is apparently so entrenched in the UK but at the same time white working class boys fall behind every single ethnic minority in terms of attainment. Or perhaps it’s just that socioeconomic class has the biggest impact on outcomes.

Would also love an explanation of why saying that the character of Shylock represents some of Shakespeare’s more egregious racist tropes is so “stupid”.

I'm loving the rush to use Jewish people to pretend racism is just as prevalent towards white people. Are the people using Jewish people's experiences to claim 'reverse racism' on this thread Jewish? Anti-Semitism is pervasive both geographically and historically. Along with sexism there are very few places, and times in history when it wasn't an issue. But that doesn't mean some random white gentile is somehow discriminated against.

Of course class is important. Can you only see class analysis when it's socioeconomic class? Because you seem to see it clearly then.

@Louloulouenna

Perhaps a topic for another thread but it’s extremely successful propaganda. I’m not suggesting they shouldn’t make an effort to fix it. The issue is that these children are more likely to live in areas which don’t have enough funding. Poc children meanwhile, are more likely to live in cities than their white counterparts. The former benefit from that, but that is certainly not by design. The funding is there because wealthy white people are also more likely to live in these areas.

The fact that white working class boys under perform is not evidence that the UK doesn’t have a race problem. Especially when despite underperforming in school, white school leavers still out earn Black school leavers by 12%. I’m always happy to acknowledge that white working-class people are not treated well by the state and wealth plays a part. However, the white working class are privileged in the sense that they don’t have to deal with race as an additional barrier in the way that working class poc do. I personally feel that acknowledging that doesn’t imbue wc white people with negative characteristics.

I’m Jewish.

Happy to be corrected but as I understand it the underperformance by white boys is predominantly in urban areas.

Of course there is a race problem in the UK (is there any country where there isn’t?). But that’s a long way from saying white supremacy is entrenched.

@MrsTerryPratchett

I think anti semitism can be minimised because it is not linked to skin colour and leads to outrageous s statements by the like of Diane Abbott that white people can't experience racism (patently untrue). I think I anti semitism shows racism is can be independent of skin colour and racism extends beyond a simple narrative of poc experiencing racism and white people being the perpetrators. It is a lot more complex.

I don't think we should engage in casual racism at all irrespective of skin colour hence I think we must call out lyrics in this song as it gives the impression that racial slurs are allowable because of a historical power imbalance in society. I simply don't think racism of any type should be unquestioned.

a historical power imbalance in society

Your use of the word “historical” here explains a lot about your line of argument on this thread.

Do you have any insight into the differing attainment statistics between Black African and Black Caribbean populations in the UK?

@MCOut

There were a fair few Germans in the 1930s that did think Jews were inferior. Anti semitism is a form of racism as Jews are a race.

I think it is problematic for some to accept that white skinned people can be subject to racism. I understand it's rarer than with poc but it does exist and I don't think we should trivialize it or seem it acceptable because of historical wrongs.

racism is complex and has been endemic in all human societies throughout history. We should combat racism of all forms and I don't think some groups have exclusive rights to victimisation.

@peachgreen

if we look at recent conservatives cabinets we can see many people of colour in power.

Oh well that’s alright then. All sorted. 🙄

There were a fair few Germans in the 1930s that did think Jews were inferior. Anti semitism is a form of racism as Jews are a race.

This. And 6 million of us were exterminated, driven by the ideology that we were a separate and inferior race of people.

@peachgreen

the point is that there can be people of colour who could be described as privileged e.g. Kwasi Kwarteng with a private school Oxbridge background. There are also many white people who are disadvanatged.

I think the overall point is that no skin colour has a monopoly on racism and racism occurs between many different people s including obviously Jews. We should tackle discrimination where ever it happens without consideration of skin colour and there can be no excuse for it universally.

To paraphrase Martin Luther King Raye was perfectly entitled to judge the content of her manager's character but not in terms of the colour of his skin.

Have you read the entire thread, @mids2019? Because numerous posters, including me, have already explained why you’re wrong.

White people can face classism. They can face anti-Semitism and xenophobia. Those things are extremely damaging, must be called out and can have a devastating impact. Can be “equally bad” as racism, if you want to compare in that way. But white people in the UK do not face racism.

Also I can assure you that Martin Luther King would be aghast at you misappropriating his words to back up your flawed argument. Have a read: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/17/mlk-is-revered-today-but-the-real-king-would-make-white-people-uncomfortable

This is precisely my point. Anti-Semitism can be racism, but it isn’t always. In Nazi Germany it was racism, because it was decided that Jewish people were not white and they were treated accordingly. There is so much documentation that explicitly attempts to justify their poor treatment by equating Jewish people to Black and Asian people. An entire system of rules was created to disadvantage, exploit and then murder Jewish people.

That is largely not what we are seeing in 2024. Jewish people of European descent, like all white people, are to some extent beneficiaries of inequalities in the current system. That is not an insult. It just is what it is and given this basic fact of life it is not trivialising antisemitism or anti white discrimination to refuse to pretend it’s the same thing as racism. If people were failing to acknowledge that anti-white discrimination exists, that would be a problem. However, no one is saying that.

Raye’s lyrics are simply reflecting her personal reality. Her career was stifled when she was at the mercy of power dynamic which puts women of colour at a disadvantage. It is not discriminatory or insulting to white people to for her to express how she felt and it is not right to try and scream racism to silence poc when they point out what actual racism looks like.

'To paraphrase Martin Luther King Raye was perfectly entitled to judge the content of her manager's character but not in terms of the colour of his skin.'

Indeed. Not hard is it.

@MCOut

I think the question here is are Jews a rqce? Many would say so because they are a distinct group of people who have suffered genocide because of their heritage. Race is a social construct granted but I do feel Jews are a distinct people and whether anti semitism is a form of racism is to some degree semantics given that atrocious results of anti semitism both historically and presently. Even if you don't believe anti semitism is racism then you certainly would say there needs to be protection against anti semitism so why can't everybody be afforded that privelege?

@MCOut

also a lot of Jews were left with nothing during WW2 if they still had their lives.and often fled to countries where anti semitism was still in place. You could therefore argue Jews had to struggle from a place of oppression nd poverty and yet they seem to be viewed as somehow privileged?