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Telly addicts

Raye Racist

297 replies

AnonymousUser6 · 03/03/2024 13:47

Having never heard of Raye before her BAFTA success last night I decided to listen to some of her music. Was somewhat enjoying it until her lyrics “All the white men CEOs, fuck your privilege
Get your pink chubby hands off my mouth, fuck you think this is?”
I personally feel these are racist lyrics and they are unacceptable.

OP posts:
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8
peachgreen · 14/03/2024 09:45

Hippyhippybake · 14/03/2024 09:08

Do you ever get bored of seeing everything through the prism of skin colour?!

I try not to, because only white people get that luxury – it's yet another example of our privilege.

FrippEnos · 14/03/2024 14:10

Hippyhippybake · 14/03/2024 09:08

Do you ever get bored of seeing everything through the prism of skin colour?!

Apparently not seeing skin colour is now a bad thing. Not seeing someone's color is denying who they are.
Personally I see people through their actions.

BlueMonday1977 · 14/03/2024 15:10

FrippEnos · 14/03/2024 14:10

Apparently not seeing skin colour is now a bad thing. Not seeing someone's color is denying who they are.
Personally I see people through their actions.

Yes. It is a bad thing.

not seeing colour means you don’t see the issues that affect that person because of their colour.

peachgreen · 14/03/2024 19:13

FrippEnos · 14/03/2024 14:10

Apparently not seeing skin colour is now a bad thing. Not seeing someone's color is denying who they are.
Personally I see people through their actions.

Good lord. Please educate yourself. A simple Google will lead you to thousands and thousands of articles explaining why you’re wrong, but here’s a handy link to one of them.

https://ideas.ted.com/why-saying-i-dont-see-race-at-all-just-makes-racism-worse/

Why saying “I don’t see race at all” just makes racism worse

When writer Heather McGhee was growing up in the 1980s, many Americans were taught the way to be a good person was to swear that race didn’t matter. Today we’re paying a price for that …

https://ideas.ted.com/why-saying-i-dont-see-race-at-all-just-makes-racism-worse/

Teddleshon · 14/03/2024 20:06

How on earth can you assess the issues that affect someone based on their skin colour? The son of a Nigerian billionaire is going to have somewhat different issues in life than a disabled Jamaican woman.

peachgreen · 14/03/2024 22:44

Teddleshon · 14/03/2024 20:06

How on earth can you assess the issues that affect someone based on their skin colour? The son of a Nigerian billionaire is going to have somewhat different issues in life than a disabled Jamaican woman.

Yes obviously. Nobody is saying otherwise. Please see earlier (multiple) posts on the intersection of racism with classism / ableism / xenophobia / misogyny / antisemitism. But the fact remains that in the Western world, a white person is going to enjoy more privilege than a POC in the same position. A white person’s life may be negatively impacted by many, many factors, some of which are as damaging as racism. But – in the West – it won’t be negatively impacted on any serious level by the colour of their skin. They will not be victims of racism in any meaningfully detrimental way.

peachgreen · 14/03/2024 22:53

Honestly these are the most simple facets of race theory and it’s exhausting that so many people still seem to be so utterly ignorant of them. If you’re genuinely interested in learning more and expanding your world view I recommend the following:

Why I’m No Longer Talking To White People About Race
White Fragility
Brit(ish)
How To Be An Antiracist

MCOut · 14/03/2024 23:11

@peachgreen If they read White fragility, I think they will explode. It will be like you stabbed their Mum by suggesting it

Louloulouenna · 14/03/2024 23:25

Actually I have had the misfortune of reading White Fragility.

I just don't see that in the west a white person will automatically always have privilege when compared with a poc in the same socio economic position. See the outcomes of Hindus versus white people, travellers versus everybody and of course ethnic Chinese people who outperform everyone, no matter what their socioeconomic background. The differing outcomes for Caribbean versus African heritage children in the UK even from similar socio economic backgrounds is also interesting.

The data suggests that the single biggest factor is a two parent household.

FrippEnos · 15/03/2024 06:55

peachgreen · 14/03/2024 19:13

Good lord. Please educate yourself. A simple Google will lead you to thousands and thousands of articles explaining why you’re wrong, but here’s a handy link to one of them.

https://ideas.ted.com/why-saying-i-dont-see-race-at-all-just-makes-racism-worse/

Nice assumption there.

But then sarcasm doesn't transfer well to forums.

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 07:14

We come back to anti senitism being in my view racism as Jews are a race. I always find poc find this problematic as there is an obvious racism against white skinned people. I think to try and argue Hitler discriminated against Jews but well at least he wasn't racist wrong as Diane Abbott found to her cost.

There other forms of racism against white people documented in the past and whether you frame something as racism or discrimination the end result is the same. Back in the 60s when people had signs saying no 'blacks or Irish' both groups were being discriminated against and the end result of the discrimination was the same (also the solution passing legislation to prevent discrimination against Irish and poc).

to effectively coming rqcism/discrimination I think having a hierarchy of racism unhelpful and we need to address all discrimination equally. There is in my view no one form of racism that 'trumps' another. All.are bad.

We saw a classic example of how tackling racism becomes universal in footbakk. Footballers were taking the knee against all forms of racism eventually when I guess some footballers initially wishes the gesture to be against only racism against poc; it changed because the FA quite rightly didn't want to single out one form of racism.

It seems that there are those that try and expand and equalise the definition of racism are perceived as being a block on the anti racism cause but I don't think this is the case.

peachgreen · 15/03/2024 09:33

You've said all this before, and my response is the same as it was twelve pages ago: yes, sometimes antisemitism is racism (which doesn't make it any better or worse than any other kind of antisemitism). But this:

I think having a hierarchy of racism unhelpful and we need to address all discrimination equally. There is in my view no one form of racism that 'trumps' another. All.arebad.

...is still untrue. Racial prejudice against (non-Jewish, if that makes you feel better!) white people is not as damaging as the systemic and endemic racism faced by POC (in the Western world) (or, for that matter, the antisemitism faced by Jewish people all over the world).

And with that, I'm also bowing out. The books I've recommended make these points and much more far better than I ever could. If you're genuinely interested in furthering your thoughts on race and racism, you'll read them. If not, you're just here for a fight and it's a waste of my time and energy.

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 09:57

Looking internationally the concept of racism is complex and we can see that political or tribal affiliation can be as important as skin colour when looking at the cause of discrimination and conflict.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide

There have always been power imbalances throughout all human society and I don't think it is quite fair to single out 'white supremacism ' as the cause of all their worlds ills. There have been horrendous illustrations of racism and discrimination within and between all races .

Power imbalances are mainly caused through economic disadvantage and there is more in common with a poor poc and poor white person than divides them. Talk of white privilege and embedded racial advantage does not favour to either of these two groups.

Entrenched power and privilege is certainly not exclusively associated with white people as the Saudi Royal family can attest to as well as countless examples of other powerful groups without a white skin tone.

I agree we need to address entrenched privilege but the privilege is certainly not smiley down to crude racial divided but is more complex

Certainly talk about power and privilege but let's not make race the root problem

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 15/03/2024 10:33

swimsong · 11/03/2024 14:30

@mids2019

Which was worse being forced to work in a plantation or effectively being forced to work in mind or cotton mill with unguarded machinery? I think there is a similarity

Yes, there's such a lot of similarity between going home to your family every night and being violently raped by your owners with impunity.

Crikey I missed that.

How incredibly ignorant Confused

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 15/03/2024 10:37

MrsTerryPratchett · 12/03/2024 19:59

@FrippEnos as I said, there was an element of race. But the gangs weren't raping elderly white men, were they? It is CSA and misogyny at its core. The same men if they were in Thailand would be raping Hmong girls and in Pakistan would be raping poor and/or orphaned girls.

The girls' race made them accessible and reduced empathy. But had they not been accessible, I don't think these men would have just decided to respect consent.

MrsT you have written some excellent posts over several threads recently 👏

MCOut · 15/03/2024 11:31

@mids2019

You are consistently bringing this back to Nazi Germany, which created an entire system to first exclude, then exploit then murder Jewish people. No one is disputing that it was racism. David Baddiel’s Schrodinger’s whites point is something I agree with. I also agree that it doesn’t matter how the minority group sees themselves, it matters how society sees them. In 2024, British people largely treat Jewish people as white so most antisemitism that they are facing is not racism.

You keep saying that the outcome is the same. I am telling you as somebody who actually experiences it, that is not true. This writer explains this somewhat, it is American and Black focused but the premise is the same. https://www.heyalma.com/stop-comparing-anti-semitism-and-racism-in-america/

Jewish people are beneficiaries of white privilege (that is not an insult), they can assimilate into the British population in the way that the rest of us cannot and generally seem to be treated accordingly. I don’t experience anything remotely similar to what Jewish people do when Israel hits the news. I don’t have to worry when going into my place of worship, my worries around school do not include security. State support is also different. Look at the government actions around BLM, protest and education. I’m not criticising the recent decision to increase funding for school security in Jewish schools, it was definitely the right thing to do but if majority black schools were being threatened I guarantee we would get performative sympathy if that.

It is not helpful to pretend that these things are the same. That doesn’t mean I’m saying antisemitism is less important or impactful but it should be tackled separately. In the same way David Baddiel doesn’t appreciate the universalisation of the holocaust, you cannot expect me to be happy with a white ethnic group coming into anti-racism spaces and inevitably being prioritised when there is a conflict of interest.

David Baddiel’s book was my White Fragility. His book is tiny, is supposed to be about the Jewish experience and yet mentions black people around 60 times. He could’ve written about how antisemitism in Labour was reduced to being about attacking the left of the party, deprivation in London Orthodox communities or the impact on people of feeling like they have to hide in left wing spaces. Instead he wrote nonsense about us (well AA because theirs was a more convenient narrative to his points). This is what conflating the two experiences leads to.

mids2019 · 15/03/2024 13:28

@MCOut

Firstly all racism is wrong and I hope we can agree it should be called out.

The reason I mention Jews is that anti semitism has been historically a problem and still is. I think there is an academic discussion about Jews and race but what can't be denied is that Jews face hostility because of their culture/religion and I would say race. When you see a black person being abused the impact to my mind would be the same as anti Semitic abuse. Both would involve egregious slurs and the victim being humiliated; I don't think one type of abuse is worse than another. By separating all forms of discrimination/racism isn't the motivation to suggest one form is more a problem than another?

I just think that 'white supremacism' can't be the only form of racism or discrimination focused on to the exclusion of others. I have given examples where there has been horrendous conflict between groups of other people other than white people oppresing poc.

As a white person I know plenty of white people that have suffered poverty and forms of discrimination. I think this is a group that seems to be excluded in modern discourse. I don't think it helpful to really expect this group to appreciate their white privilege?

A really complex debate about racism I have had recently is whether Islam or Muslimness can be considered a race and there are many that feel it should to allow an emphasis on discrimination they face based not solely on skin colour but religion /culture. I dont think it's an easy question.

I just think racism/discrimination is complex and I try and avoid tarring all white people as privileged oppressors.

OneTidyExpert · 17/06/2024 14:45

AnonymousUser6 · 03/03/2024 13:47

Having never heard of Raye before her BAFTA success last night I decided to listen to some of her music. Was somewhat enjoying it until her lyrics “All the white men CEOs, fuck your privilege
Get your pink chubby hands off my mouth, fuck you think this is?”
I personally feel these are racist lyrics and they are unacceptable.

Doesn't surprise me you posted this anonymously lol.

A black person explaining in detail about how she's been treated due to what she looks like isn't racism. Speaking about privilege isn't racism. She already received the racism with her label.

Just because you feel something is racist doesn't mean that it is or that it is unacceptable. That's your PRIVILEGE showing.

The age old agenda of the KKK was to gas light the world into thinking black people create racism by speaking about it. You can't be this daft to not realise the racist act has to have 1st been done them before they speak about it?🤔

VestibuleVirgin · 18/06/2024 04:47

rainydaysandwednesdays · 05/03/2024 06:48

You're missing the point.

I even feel funny typing "get your big black hands off me" even if I had been abused by said hands.

It's not acceptable and is spreading hate.

Spreading hate?
I think you'll find unprovoked attacks such as that on Stephen Lawrence, and other young black or Asian man by white boys would lead to hate more than a few lyrics which reflect someone's truth

AnonymousUser6 · 19/06/2024 22:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MissTrip82 · 19/06/2024 23:00

Goodness given your principled stand on racism there must be pages and pages and pages of threads you’ve started on racism affecting people of colour.

I’ll just do a quick search……..

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