Raye Racist

[AnonymousUser6]

Having never heard of Raye before her BAFTA success last night I decided to listen to some of her music. Was somewhat enjoying it until her lyrics “All the white men CEOs, fuck your privilege
Get your pink chubby hands off my mouth, fuck you think this is?”
I personally feel these are racist lyrics and they are unacceptable.

That’s not what I was doing and you know it.

What happened was horrifying. The investigation was bungled and it was an appalling event. Race absolutely played a role, both in the initial crime and in the police response. But not “racism against white people”, which is what you’re trying to argue.

Those girls deserve more than to have what they went through being wheeled out as a handy “gotcha” in support of an argument.

Sorry but I actually find the suggestion that they are just some sort of “gotcha” to me as really offensive.

I found you using it as such pretty offensive too.

Why were you offended by it ? Are you a Pakistani man?

That was misogyny. And child abuse. Men just find the most vulnerable girls to abuse. In Thailand they are Hmong, in Rochdale they are white. The systematic failures of the police were about misogyny and classism as well.

As @peachgreen says, race played a part but it wasn't systemic racism against the victims that caused it. It was good old misogyny and male violence.

But it was racism, they were selected because they were seen as being of lesser worth due to the colour of their skin. i.e Racism.

The overwhelming majority of Rochdale is either white or Asian. Young Asian girls will not be accessible because most will be supervised, unlike these white children who didn’t seem to have adults around to protect them and when they did, the police failed to adequately support them. I do think a lot of this had to do with the fact these girls were working class. It’s not that fetishisation and prejudice on the part of these predators is not possible, it’s just that if it was I would’ve expected it to have been reported because it’s the sort of disgusting thing that would get repeated to the girls over and over again.

The police and local authorities were a disgrace too. They are perfectly happy to engage in racism particularly GMP but yet everyone should believe they developed sensitivities when the time came to protect little children from peadophiles? When you read about how poorly the victims and female whistleblowers were treated the blatant, misogyny and classism is what jumps out. These girls were definitely failed on an institutional level, but it’s not racism.

@FrippEnos as I said, there was an element of race. But the gangs weren't raping elderly white men, were they? It is CSA and misogyny at its core. The same men if they were in Thailand would be raping Hmong girls and in Pakistan would be raping poor and/or orphaned girls.

The girls' race made them accessible and reduced empathy. But had they not been accessible, I don't think these men would have just decided to respect consent.

It's a song. Artistic expression. Not a debate at the Oxford union

So if a gang of white males systemically targeted underage black girls from disadvantaged backgrounds presumably that would also primarily be misogyny, not racism?

MrsTerryPratchett

Lets stop with the what ifs.
These men saw these girls as lesser because of the colour of their skin. if you don't see that as racism, then I feel sorry for you.
As I have repeatedly said there is more than one definition of racism.
Again if you cannot accept that then that is also on you.

And as we have repeatedly said, if you want to play semantics and lump systemic racism against BAME people and racial prejudice against white people under one umbrella label of “racism”, that’s fine, but it still doesn’t make them the same thing.

I think I'm out @peachgreen

We've spoken about systemic racism and class analysis at length. Some people just want to believe racism is simply one person versus another person without considering the history, culture, society, structure... There's only so much chess I can play with pigeons. All the very best.

If a gang of white males targeted underage black girls from disadvantage backgrounds in the UK, they would’ve had to go out of their way to do so because there aren’t that many of us. Then if those girls and their parents had to go to the police, firstly the forces have already been found to be institutionally racist, and the likelihood is most of the people that they would be dealing with would be white. Then assuming the case was prosecuted, the judge would also be white and again, the judiciary has been proven to be institutionally racist. That is the difference.

These men are evil. Evil men are not going to ignore a conveniently located population of vulnerable white girls to go elsewhere so they can target a diverse racial mix. If this happened in a more diverse place with girls of other ethnic groups who were equally as vulnerable, but only white children were targeted you would have more of a point. That doesn’t mean that there was no racial prejudice in terms of how they viewed the victims but I don’t think being of another race but equally vulnerable would have improved the outcome.

If a substantial amount of white people are going to insist on opening up the terms racism/racist to all cases of racial prejudice, discrimination & harrassment - then we're going to need a new term for the historical, systematic, powerful oppression of black people and the ideology of superiority that goes with it.

The thing is, while someone arguing for racism going in all directions may not themselves be racist - it's difficult not to see the argument itself as an expression of white supremacy.

The sad thing is that I have never said that, I have said that systemic racism exists and that racism exists.

It doesn't help anyone's cause to try and redefine the other.

there are already two terms.
racism and systemic racism.
The first was already opened up to "all directions".

Or: racial prejudice and racism. Which is the more widely-accepted use amongst people and organisations that work in this area.

and as per your use of "widely" not every organisation or person does which puts us back at square one.

Well, not really. The more important thing is – as @swimsong wisely points out – for while people obsessed with being able to call themselves victims of racism to perhaps try to get to the bottom of why it’s so important to them.

possibly because they are victims of racism and want it to be recognised as such.
Its not hard.

Mm, I’m sure it’s had a huge detrimental impact on their lives. 🙄

And you will never know.

White people getting pissed off because someone mentions white skin is just using the law to their advantage. It's classic 'equality' not 'equity'. I struggle to see it as anything other than white people going "HAHA look what happens when you get rights, WE use them on you".

It's the same as when men say, "you feminists wanted equality" while screwing us. Well no, I want freedom from the patriarchy actually. Not equality. Equality is us killing 2 of you a week.

// Spot on

Do you ever get bored of seeing everything through the prism of skin colour?!