THE PUSH. MURDER ONNTHE CLIFF - sun and mon 9pm ch 4 - TV PACE. NO SPOILERS

[Blondeshavemorefun]

hasn’t been a lot on recently or had 3 dramas on one night. Wish they would spread them out !!

anyway new 2 parter based on real life

In 2021, a young lawyer fell from the top of Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh.

Her husband was soon arrested for murder.

A murder with no weapon and no witnesses.

Scotland's top legal team need to skilfully paint a picture of what happened.

did she fall or was she pushed ?

if she was pushed was it her husband ?

Oooo having just watched One Day i now know what Arthur's seat is and where! This looks up my alley thanks

I've heard of this but not sure of the outcome so will watch

Don't remember hearing about this. Thanks blondes.

I do like some of the true life documents /series

This is not a drama but follows the actual court room and case, looks really good, just saw a trailer, one of the advocates was also the prosecution for Murder Trial, which is also a fantastic documentary.

I remember the outcome of this as I am in Scotland and was on the news, poor woman.

So local @GingerRuby

I think when local Alamo at means more

The sarah documentary is local to me where she was found 🥲

Horrendous case. A number of people have died in falls on Arthur's Seat over the years, but this is the only murder I know of.

I intend to watch this, but may wait until tomorrow and watch the two episodes straight off. It's all so very recent isn't it.

Starts tonight

Looking fwd to watching this tonight.

Bloody hell, it’s awful. Such abuse ( verbal) so far exposed yet his father says they were a happy couple… I can’t decide if he’s deluded or not.
Fawziyah’s mother showed such dignity in the witness box.

Awful case the family showed such dignity- the defendants father will say anything, it’s all about honour and things ‘looking right’ to the community. Some of the men have such entrenched views about women ( see the bloke being abusive outside the court)

It is not the first case like this

In the 1970s I remember a case where the couple were on honeymoon and the husband had insured his wife. Pushed her off the top but she also survived long enough to tell the rescue team that she was pushed. Laura Whitmore has a podcast on the case on bbc sounds

Is It just me who wonders, what exactly is going through the minds of these individuals who can’t see any way out other than to kill. There’s just nothing, no matter what, that should want to make someone push another pregnant human (wife) to their death.
How many psychopathic people are out there with no remorse? Why is it mostly men? Also, Nature vs nurture.. I think it’s 80% upbringing and at the most 20 % genetics.

I’ve watched both parts of this now and can’t remember what’s covered up until the first part, will come back tomorrow!

This is spot on.

I noted how the murderers dad didnt seem sorry about it - at all! It wouldn't surprise me if there was clearly dv that the dad partook in himself which is why son felt so comfortable doing what he did to fawziyah. Gobsmacked when the dad said about he wanted the £6000 ring back. No remorse whatsoever- no caring just money hungry and caring about the ring - no matter that the poor girl is dead!

Also noted how the family and friends behaved to that woman outside court- squaring upto her like some kind of brazen gangster move. Which tell me everything you need to know about what they're probably like in private. Awful behaviour. That poor girl and what she must've gone through.

I think in this situation, he used the environment to his advantage and thought it would be a convenient cover for an accident. Unfortunately for him, he didn’t research the area enough as it’s not a hotspot for accidents at all, let alone anything fatal. Plus the evidence of events before/after the incident were pretty damning.

in terms of nature vs nurture, his parents seemed to see the victim as cattle so no wonder people with trash morals have produced a trash son.

Makes me think about religious beliefs too. I’m intrigued.
What unsettled me about this was the expectation of a wife. Does This happen??
he did state (proudly) it was an £8,000 ring. Made it feel like she was a lamb to the slaughter.
taken. Bought! Their belongings.
I’m only asking because- I really would like to know if there are still expectations for a woman to just be the cook, the cleaner and baby maker, even if her earning potential is twice as much as her husbands and she wants to work. She has to live with the husbands family?? Take care of everyone? Islam??

there seems to have been a lot of documented cases very similar to this where it’s simply “ get rid of her” brings shame and sadly the family seem to just accept it. All because of embarrassment. Makes me question where these views came from and goodness knows why?

no these are absolutely not islamic values
for a start caste system or any other form of discrimination is forbidden in Islam
women are not obliged under any circumstances to cook/ clean etc. there are no such gender appointed roles in Islam however certain cultures have such norms... including British culture ( you only have do read a few mumsnet threads to realise how deep misogyny runs)

also are you serious, you are going to take this bastards excuses seriously?

clearly they are from a dysfunctional family

have you done a survey of Muslim men?

the caste system is completely forbidden in Islam which goes to show the family concerned weren't really living according to islamic values because obviously anyone with any kind of faith or moral decency would not think it's OK to kill another human ffs.

a lot of Muslim men and women don't agree with certain western social norms. I don't think drinking alcohol is beneficial for society for example. I don't judge people who drunk obvs but it's not for me and I don't enjoy being around drunk people. and there is nothing wrong with having different values as long we live and let live.

in my experience men of all backgrounds can be misogynist. I know plenty of Muslim men who are absolutely not and some that we. in fact I have come across more white men who are misogynistic than anyone else but I don't feel the need to go around making wild assumptions about an entire social group.

I just don’t like that word. It’s over used.
I really appreciate what you’re saying. All that is important to me and my family is being able to understand other realistic beliefs. I certainly didn’t have a parent to teach me, I had the church to say right or wrong, heaven or hell.
This platform, for me- it’s important because it’s about wanting to know and asking questions and never judging. Philosophy, deep thinking and expressions, understanding of views. Is there ever a zoom chat thing on this for discussions? Or are there a lot of people who don’t want to actually talk?

@Mopsybunny sorry would you mind clarifying what word you are referring to?

I 100% agree with you on the importance of discussions and dialogue, it's the only way to build a truly functional society - not just in this country, but worldwide. we no longer live in isolated pockets, the need to understand each other is so much greater as a result.

don't know about zoom sessions but I did a couple of AMAs a while back. a zoom session sounds good actually, it's so much easier to connect to people when you can see them - but I am not sure how one goes about organising one for mumsnet

Just seen last night

Did make a chill run up my back

Agree her family showed great dignity

Tbh I wasn't sure if was going to be like a documentary or actors but was real life

I hadn't realised at first that this is coverage of the actual trial. How Jasmine found the strength to remain so calm and measured in her testimony is amazing. My heart was literally breaking for Fawziyah and her family.

Leaving aside any religious cultural beliefs, it seems that from the outset the two families had raised adult children with very different outlooks. Fawziyah had qualified and become an independent career woman. When Kashif's family visited the prospective in-laws' home, Jasmine says she pointed out that Fawziyah would not become a traditional housewife and daughter in law. Fawziyah was obviously bright, attractive, charming and qualified. Kashif was still studying and frankly, to me at least, punching well above his weight. He appeared to be simultaneously proud of himself to gain such a wife, while jealous of her achievements and wanting to subjugate her. All of this against the background of the pandemic too. To hear Kashif swearing and asking who she thought she was, she's just the woman, he's the man, she's to do what he tells her. Why oh why did she see him again after she said she wouldn't return? Easy to say with hindsight. The father in law was a massive red flag, the fact he'd paid thousands for a ring and thought he'd bought a daughter, his own daughters were part of different families since they'd married and Fawziyah no longer 'belonged' to hers, she was theirs now.

I'm so shocked at what Fawziyah disclosed to police, and so was her mother, it echoes when you read on here time and time again, women asking if they're the ones in the wrong when they're being subjected to abuse. He repeatedly punched her in the face, but she didn't see it as that because he'd put a pillow across her head first! How could she think either of those things were OK? and yet she didn't make an official complaint. He threatened to pull out her mother's tongue and he said if she tried to leave, she'd end up dead, he'd finish her. The FIL I think it was, on video abusing her in the street and yet, somehow, she still thought she had time to get away safely. It's so chilling.

We must do better for our daughters' self esteem and worth. Society must do better to educate women as to what's right and acceptable and how to value and protect themselves 😟