THE PUSH. MURDER ONNTHE CLIFF - sun and mon 9pm ch 4 - TV PACE. NO SPOILERS

[Blondeshavemorefun]

hasn’t been a lot on recently or had 3 dramas on one night. Wish they would spread them out !!

anyway new 2 parter based on real life

In 2021, a young lawyer fell from the top of Arthur's Seat in Edinburgh.

Her husband was soon arrested for murder.

A murder with no weapon and no witnesses.

Scotland's top legal team need to skilfully paint a picture of what happened.

did she fall or was she pushed ?

if she was pushed was it her husband ?

Fawziya sounded like a lovely person and her dm is an amazing woman which makes me think my instincts are right about Fawziya. It is sadly an utter waste of a life with so much potential.

RIP Fawziya
💗

We arrived in Edinburgh around teatime on the 2nd September, for a Scot’s guards service at Holyrood on the 3rd. The apartment had a great view of Arthur’s Seat. We noticed no activity but heard about it over the weekend of course and as even this most remote connection grabbed our interest I have since kept checking what happened intermittently. That Fawziyah told someone her husband pushed her was reported in the papers, not sure how soon after, but I can remember discussing this. I later read about him being found guilty and being sentenced. I did, to my now embarrassment, wonder how they could be so totally sure beyond doubt though felt he probably was and personally felt it strange to go up in what I had thought in the dark.
It was fascinating to see this and realise how very wrong our chats had been - even it wasn’t far too late! But the amount of evidence collated was amazing - and for me the beyond doubt would be phoning around everywhere before 999 though the rest was very supportive and built background. The police/procurator did a very, very thorough job. I think that this is as it was murder, rightly so, but lower level abuse cases are very much in/out without much evidence or surrounding stuff I have found. Although there is a ‘tell us once’ with anything potentially honour based and I wonder if there was any review on how the earlier report was followed up - no blame as really it was a nasty violent husband found in all walks of life. It seemed less of a full collaboration to be fair and more just a ‘supportive’ father/family though I think it must have been discussed. It would be nice to think they were investigated even if not charged.

I also wondered in the programme if the husband had thought of Loch Lomond for an accident too, but then it was too busy so he re-planned.
It has taught me not to speculate on cases at all when such a huge amount of publicly unknown evidence will be in the court - though I already tend to believe the abused/the worst but equally perhaps sometimes I should not.
Overall and overwhelmingly though, as all have said this was so heartbreakingly sad and awful and Yasmine is an absolute warrior. Cases are not reported on after a charge is made, and witnesses remain outside court until after giving evidence - to ensure there is no ‘adjustment’ of any evidence, or influence on you, and hopefully the jury will have no prejudice. But to hear what she did in the courtroom for a first time is unimaginable - she is so brave for her daughter, who was also so brave - tragic and so sad a loss.

@MsJinks the fact she told passersby she was pushed is evidence in itself. She’s unable to tell her version of events, so if witnesses are able to give a statement for court, that’s the best evidence the prosecution can get. Also for me, another telling sign of guilt without the rest of the evidence is his lack of injury. An accident that left her dead and him completely unscathed is a bit odd.

@workstresss - oh yes I agree that she said is good evidence, but (prior to this programme) I wondered if her ‘word’ was sufficient for ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, for a conviction - I thought there may be an argument that she got mixed up between a ‘push’ and grab to save etc.
It wasn’t particularly gone into but his explanations of what happened seemed very muddled and contradictory to me from the first time he spoke to the ambulance and I was sure from them on, early in the programme that there was enough evidence. I also felt he wasn’t so keen to get to her once he realised others were around - and who forgets they have a phone in those circumstances. Never thought of lack of injury to him, but with his explanations’ of falling and slipping etc then he should have had something.
So much evidence in court it was beyond all doubt in my book, there couldn’t have been more, barring an independent eye witness of him doing it.
Edited to clarify a muddled sentence.

@MsJinks the other evidence was strong wasn’t it? But even then, it wasn’t a unanimous verdict.

I think it’s crazy how men like this can still muster support from people. His family are insistent it was an accident, I can’t imagine my family being that blind to my flaws/actions but then again I guess him growing up with family like that is what led to him acting with impunity

For me the phone evidence was the most damning.
The fact that he conveniently lost his phone on the journey suggests some degree of premeditation and then telling people he had no phone when he had hers. Then not phoning 999 and calling his father instead.
Also loved it when his defense lawyer said something like "I'm sure we can all agree that's he's a controlling abusive bastard, but did he commit murder". Showed exactly what he thought of him.

Also loved it when his defense lawyer said something like "I'm sure we can all agree that's he's a controlling abusive bastard, but did he commit murder". Showed exactly what he thought of him.

The defence did that to minimise his chances of successful appeal, ie to show that the defence tried everything to give him a fair trial and he can’t say they were incompetent. It’s an interesting approach because they’re highlighting the negative character evidence but dismissing it in the same breath.

Also, completely agree with the phone evidence. He accidentally called her father as it was her phone. That must have been horrible for the family to hear. The backdrop of that missed call being her injured somewhere and him refusing to get medical help.

Am I going to die?
Is my baby going to die?
And then I saw F mothers face in court burst in to tears when she heard that testimony and I really felt for her.

I don't think they are blind to his flaws at all. They are very aware of what's he done and are probably quite proud of him. The father very likely has something to do with it and his friend probably treats his own wife the same way. They are awful people.

On the “why did she go back to him?” discussion, I was listening today to a podcast featuring an interview with JK Rowling, whose first husband was a controlling, violent abuser. She said that she went back to him twice. Just shows it can happen to anyone. She also said that she spent a lot of time play acting being happy so she could keep him sweet and plot her escape with her infant daughter. That really reminded me of the bit in the documentary where the defence suggest that the couple walking arm in arm means that Fawziyah might not have been planning to leave him.

JKR eventually escaped after a fight left her bruised and lying out in the street, she went to the police and they seem to have helped her get her daughter back and leave Portugal, where she had been living. Apparently he stalked her back to the UK and broke into her house after she was in the news when the first book became a success.

She also talked about how he would hide her work in progress HP manuscript as he knew how much it meant to her. She started to take out a few pages at a time, so he would not be suspicious, and copy them at work so that she eventually had a full second copy to take with her when she left.

JKR lives in Edinburgh of course. I bet she followed this closely.

She also said that she spent a lot of time play acting being happy

That's exactly it. I often think I regret doing that and wish I'd told him what I actually thought of him but it's our instinct to do whatever we can to keep ourselves safe. As safe as we can anyway.

What a harrowing watch 😢😢 May Fawziya rest in peace and her family be granted sabr jameel (beautiful patience).

Just catching up on this now - I grew up a stone's throw from Arthur's seat and know the area well. Yes at the top there is loose gravel and stones and it's entirely plausible that someone could slip and fall on their backside, but looking at where she actually fell from. that's not the "usual way" down, which is up from Dunsapie Loch where the car park is. The paths obviously avoid the steepest bits.

There have been other murders in the Park, and falls from Salisbury Crags which is a cliff area about 45 metres high. But I have never heard about someone dying on Arthur's Seat in this way. As soon as I heard about it, it sounded fishy.

Fawziyah's mother is a tower of strength and she gave her evidence so clearly.

My goodness that was harrowing.

I thought at the end that the judge would excuse the jury from ever having to serve again.

I actually thought he would be acquitted.

I did wonder why they lived with his parents as opposed to just the two of them & how much pressure he might have been under to "keep her in line"?

Why marry a career woman if you want a traditional housewife?

I'm guessing they wanted her to keep them financially as well as do everything else?

There were a couple of photos where he had his arm around her neck.

I've always though that this looks aggressive/a sign of abuse.

The only time I ever saw someone do this he was whispering in her ear "and if you ever do that again I'll break your fucking neck!"

I’ve just watched this harrowing programme.

At the start of it programme, the defence lawyer (I think) said that the trial would only be for the crime committed in Scotland. I wonder if Kashif was charged under English law for domestic abuse following evidence given during the trial?

Isn't it utterly heartbreaking @Bamy
Kashif "was punching way above" when he married Fawziyah.
He should have treasured this beautiful woman carrying their child.

Instead he murdered them.🥲

It really is @LadyEloise1. I’m so glad that Fawziyah recorded evidence during their relationship and was able to tell the police officer that she was pushed.